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Messages - muzzakiwi

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1
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Friday 18 December 20 01:21 GMT (UK)  »
Yes, thank you Horselydown! Acknowledged on the appropriate page.

Notes on Evenwood Water Corn Mill now found here <ref>https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Vicars-249&public=1</ref>

2
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Thursday 17 December 20 07:45 GMT (UK)  »
Excellent - thank you! Have spent hours trying to find that 1658 record again but to no avail. Am pretty sure it continued in the normal way.  ....right, quit claim etc

The meaning of 'fould' makes sense. I'm told pinfold is pound (as in for animals) and the one in Evenwood seemed to be a stone-walled enclosure. From those entries it appears Viccars was something of a stone mason. If 'steep' has the connotation of precipitously flowing water perhaps 'steep-fould'  might be to do with the weir at the mill source.

Looking at the translation again from Feb 1662 the word 'source' could have the connotation of mill-race so that and the 1658 entry in english seem to concur.

You have been very patient, BB, and I have learnt a lot from you (and about my laptop). Thank you for the time and effort put into the many translations. I had no idea there would be so much to ask. It really is appreciated. Best wishes.

3
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Wednesday 16 December 20 07:38 GMT (UK)  »
The first  "...George Viccars for not repairing the west poole and the steep fould(?)" If fould is correct what is it?

The second one are the entries immediately after the first, and seem to relate to Viccars.

(1) Memorandum lay(?) again that the pp(?) in fould wall shall be sufficiently repaired before the day of 17th November. Obery(?) default...
(2)  Memorandum lay again that the ?  wall  shall be likewise repaired before that time. Obery default...
(3) Memorandum likewise lay the same vain(?) that the water  ?   that goeth through Thomas Hoggart's garth be mended before that time.

Thank you in advance.

4
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Wednesday 16 December 20 07:35 GMT (UK)  »
These hopefully will be the final requests (2 posts). If correct the first may resolve my mill intake conundrum. It shows the only part of interest (the rest is standard and clear). The crucial word seems to be 'race'. Could the word in the recent Feb 1662 entry be translated as 'race' instead of 'intake'? If so it means the mill race was on the south side, and not necessarily the intake which I believe was further upstream.

 "..took of the Lord two acres of land late of the Lord’s waste lying at Gaunless Bridge, abutting onto a tenement at Ramshaw sometime(?) Robert Wild on the north, and the water race(?) of the mill called Evenwood Mill on the south, for his  Ri…d(?) And Margarett his wife…"

The second is just for confirmation & translation:  "Hansom Johnes p(os)t mortem  ?  Johnes. ..663"

5
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Monday 14 December 20 20:11 GMT (UK)  »
Another useful translation. Thank you!
I've been trying to match that information with that known about the recent mill from 1825 maps.
That was located 700m downstream of the bridge on the south side of the river. It was said to be an overshot wheel at least 16 feet in diameter fed by a 900 yard leet. That would make the intake about 100m west of the bridge. The Gaunless runs in an easterly direction at that point and it's flow could not support anything but an overshot wheel. 

Halmote records for a mill go back to the 15th century but no precise indication of where it was has been found. From the translated description George Viccars/Vickers' land was on the north side of the river near the bridge. (Raley Fell is on the north side, as is Ramshaw) hence the river would need to be forded when supplies were brought. (A drawing of the more recent mill site shows a ford less than 100m downstream.) The intake for the mill in 1662 was said to be on the south side of Viccars' land and his land was used for access. Hence, if the same mill site were being used his land would be on the east side of the bridge. That would indicate the leet was shorter at that time, and possibly the wheel smaller.

I am going through the Halmote records in an effort to find the elusive first Handsom records in the 1660s. If you don't hear from me again I haven't found anything. Meanwhile season greetings and Merry Kirihimete. With much appreciation. MW
 

6
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Sunday 13 December 20 10:02 GMT (UK)  »
Would you please look at these ones. I'm hoping they give the information about Geo Viccars needed. Thank you.

7
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Saturday 12 December 20 10:07 GMT (UK)  »
Great! Thank you BB. Clearly I'm still missing different letters and words in reading these docs. Your help is invaluable as is the extra note. 

8
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Friday 11 December 20 19:40 GMT (UK)  »
here is the plea

9
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help with Latin docs c1720
« on: Friday 11 December 20 19:40 GMT (UK)  »
Hi again. Would appreciate your corrections on this one from April 1673. The site of the water corn mill in early times is unclear. I'm hoping this may help confirm it - if we can pinpoint George Viccars lease.

“The further presentment of the Ezard inquest at the Court at Eavenwood. We present and say that we have heard the testimony of several neighbours who have knowne and have had the mill called Eavenwood Mill in their possession who all avow who said that the way to the said mill always for horses and also for millstones was loading from the fell and through the grounds of George Vittars (Viccars?), which he hath now in possession without any interruption or hindrances at all, and likewise that the owner and farmers of the said mill did keepe Pullan and sometimes swine at the said mill, and did lead and carry away the manure from it, and this some of the  jury cann likewise testifye(?).  And likewise that the thatch and timber for the said mill was carryed the same way without interruption until of late by the said George Vittars/Viccars.” 

Do you know what 'Pullan' might refer to? Google indicates it might be colts..

And the plea - is it a plea Handsom with respect to default by Hodshon?

Many thanks

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