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Messages - Tyne Traveller

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Northumberland / Re: Newcastle Hairdressers Jas.&Wm. TEMPLE Photos? Memories?
« on: Sunday 21 October 12 10:56 BST (UK)  »
Radcliff - Flickr is wonderful for old pictures of Newcastle! Haven't found anything I was originally looking for, but am really enjoying getting sidetracked down other streets (literally!)

For anyone else looking for this sort of thing, Tyne and Wear Archives set is good. Newcastle Libraries collection is very good - especially the Tyneside Life and Times set.

I'll let you know if I find anything relevant.

Janet.

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Northumberland / Re: Newcastle Hairdressers Jas.&Wm. TEMPLE Photos? Memories?
« on: Saturday 20 October 12 16:55 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Radcliff - I'll have a look. I must say the more modern photos I've found of that area of Westgate Road are a bit depressing - boarded up shops etc. I'm hoping it was a bit more vibrant back then!

Janet

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Northumberland / Newcastle Hairdressers Jas.&Wm. TEMPLE Photos? Memories?
« on: Saturday 20 October 12 12:52 BST (UK)  »
This may be a bit of a long shot, but I am trying to find more anecdotal information about James and William Anderson Temple, brothers who were both Hairdressers in the West End of Newcastle from the 1890s onwards.

In particular I would love to find some photos of their shops in Westgate Road, Stanhope Street, and High Bridge.

James (Great-Grandpa Jimmy) had a Hairdressers and Tobacconists at 386 Westgate Road according to Kellys 1914 Directory and Wards Directories of 1890, 1898, 1910 and 1916. In 1914 he also had a Hairdressers establishment in the Brighton Assembly Rooms in Westgate Road in addition to the main shop.

William Anderson Temple (Bill) had a shop in High Bridge, Newcastle in 1890 - a slightly more high class area of town! In 1898 and 1910 he was in 282, Stanhope Street. Couldn't find him in the 1914 Directory, so I am thinking he was working in one of Jimmy's shops. In 1916 he is in Westgate Road, so again, probably working with Jimmy.

In my memory, James son, also James, ran a Hairdresser's shop with his wife in Stanhope Street, next door to Robinsons fish & chip shop, in the 1950s-1970s until he retired. Not sure of the date, but he died in 1981.

Any memories, knowledge or photos of any of these businesses would be wonderful. A rather specific request, I know, but you never know who is out there!

4
Northumberland / Re: Marriage of William Anderson Temple & Dorothy Robson c1861
« on: Friday 19 October 12 09:52 BST (UK)  »
Hi Michael. Hope you enjoyed your trip to the Archives. I really appreciate the effort you are putting into this and hope it bears fruit!

As you say, none of these Temples is mine as far as I know. My William was a file cutter/maker/hardener, except for a brief time in 1871 when he was a railway porter, probably because he couldn't get the work as a file maker.

He didn't do all that well for his family from the looks of things. in the 1881 census he was an out of work file hardener and the family were living in the Wesleyan Mission Rooms in Buckingham Street. He died in 1898 of alcoholic dementia and asthenia.

Re parishes - in 1861 when William was still with his mother and brothers they were living in Hanover street which is described on some censuses as being in St John and in others as St Nicholas. Dorothy's family seem to have been well established around Diana Street by then which I think is St John. The nearest church is St Phillip's just west of Diana Street.

I wish I was closer to do some of this hunting around Parish Records and Archives. Unfortunately, all my research to date has been on-line since I am hundreds of miles away in the North of Scotland. Still - who knows what may happen in the future! ;)

Best wishes, Janet.

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Northumberland / Re: Marriage of William Anderson Temple & Dorothy Robson c1861
« on: Thursday 18 October 12 08:46 BST (UK)  »
Michael. Thanks you so much for your time and effort - I hope I'm not taking you away from important research into your own family.

Just one little thing to add which might or might not be important. When I looked up the marriage index for the 1863 marriage the FindMyPast Marriagefinder gave two other male names for 3Q 1863 Newcastle apart from William Temple and only two female names in total - someone hasn't got a partner!

Good Luck today!

Janet.

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Northumberland / Re: Marriage of William Anderson Temple & Dorothy Robson c1861
« on: Wednesday 17 October 12 16:31 BST (UK)  »
Yes, I found a similar thing a while ago for Irish names. Same pattern and if there is a fourth son and daughter they are named after the father's eldest brother and mother's eldest sister.

(Because I have three generations of William Anderson Temple that I know about I will start calling them William 1 b.1807, William 2 b.1835 (did I mention I can't find his birth record either?!) and William 3 b.1870)

I don't think the Temples were strictly traditional. In naming Edward John, the second name could be after Dorothy's dad, but I don't know what the attraction of Edward is. Jane is after William 2's mother. No idea about Elizabeth. William Anderson 3 is named after William 2 or more likely after William 1 since he is the first legitimate son. James could be named after William 2's oldest brother or after his grandfather.

William Anderson Temple 1 called his four sons (in age order) James Henry, Reuben E, William Anderson and John. James is after his father. No idea where the others come from since I haven't gone further back, except that 2 of William 1's brothers were Henry and John.

William 2's brothers used familiar names:
James Henry called his son Reuben Henry
Reuben called his children John and Dorothy Ann
John had Jane, Ellen (after his wife) and Edward Hugh

It seems there is a lot of naming after siblings rather than using strict conventions.

It's fun but is this getting us anywhere Michael? I hope you are not as confused as I am!

Janet

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Northumberland / Re: Marriage of William Anderson Temple & Dorothy Robson c1861
« on: Wednesday 17 October 12 13:00 BST (UK)  »
Yes Michael. The lack of ditto marks crossed my mind too - I was reluctant to make this any more complicated!

The 16 month theory fits in well with the birth certificate I have for Dorothy junior's son born 26 Nov 1859.

Incidentally, just to throw a further spanner in the works. The second child shown on the 1871 census for William and Dorothy is a Jane Temple, born about 1862-3, calculated from the census. As in Edward's case, I cannot find a suitable birth record for a Jane Temple, but there are several possibles for a Jane Robson.

 Could Dorothy have had two illeg. children before she and William became respectable? If so, their marriage may be as late as 1864-ish. Their next child was Elizabeth born about 1865-66. Trouble is, all of these names are very common in the area and without buying multiple certificates it's hard to establish the right one. There is more than one possible Elizabeth Temple birth.

These three were followed by another William Anderson Temple b.1870, James b.1871 (great grandpa Jimmy) and Catherine Jane b.1875-76, all of which I can trace pretty well.

The obsession with the name Jane comes from William Anderson Temple's mother, Jane Spark, later Temple, later Atkinson.

I'm wittering now, but if you want any more info let me know - I've been beating my head against a brick wall with this family for years now!

8
Northumberland / Re: Marriage of William Anderson Temple & Dorothy Robson c1861
« on: Wednesday 17 October 12 10:40 BST (UK)  »
Just looking further to identify the 16 year old Edward R living with Dorothy senior in 1861 - if indeed he is 16 years old and not Dorothy junior's 16 month old illegit son!

 I can find no record of a birth for an Edward R Robson in 1844/5 in Northumberland or Durham. There are some Edward Robsons born in Northumberland/Durham over this period so that is inconclusive, but you might expect the middle initial to be recorded in the birth registration.

The only marriage for an Edward R Robson in Newcastle is in 1917. No conclusive death record. Once again, too many plain Edward Robsons to be sure of anything.

Michael recognised that the description did not say 'son' and might be 'non'. Could it just possibly be Gson (grandson)? The enumerator does not extend the lower loop of his Gs below the line in other entries. Still clinging to my  pet theory!

Janet.

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Northumberland / Re: Marriage of William Anderson Temple & Dorothy Robson c1861
« on: Wednesday 17 October 12 09:36 BST (UK)  »
Hi Michael in Newcastle.

I have a birth certificate for Edward John Robson, born illegitimately to Dorothy Robson, on 26 Nov 1859 in Newcastle. Index ref  Vol 10b page 30.

Yes I think you are right about the word 'son' - it is different from the others. If the relationship is none does this mean this Edward is just a lodger/boarder? They normally say this on the census. Also wouldn't you expect a 16 year old lodger unrelated to the head of house to have an occupation recorded?

William A Temple's Edward on the 1871 census is named as his son, never as stepson, and is 11 years old. I was unable to find a birth record for an Edward or Edward John Temple for 1859/60. I did find a death certificate for an Edward John Temple in Newcastle, 20 year old son of William Temple for 21 Feb 1880. Ref: 10b 22.

Hence the house of cards I've built to explain this! I'm happy for you to knock it down - can you build me a better one? ;)

Best wishes, Janet

PS I have noticed with this family (William had three brothers) that they passed their offspring around a lot. One brother died young and a son of his was 'adopted' permanently by another brother. Just makes life more interesting!


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