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Messages - denbury

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1
Lancashire / Friendly Societies Which Ones for Colliers?
« on: Sunday 26 October 14 06:17 GMT (UK)  »
Hi

Does anyone know how I would find out the possible workers clubs/friendly societies that someone belonged to c1907.

Occupation: collier
Place: Rainford, Lancs.

Thanks

2
Travelling People / Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« on: Saturday 29 June 13 12:43 BST (UK)  »
Hi Rob

To cut a long story shorter....

Timeline

16 July 1905 - Born, birth name and place of birth unknown
13 Oct 1906 - Wheatsheaf pub, Rainford, Lancs., woman travelling with two men (reported to be coopers by trade) and two children, sold one of the children for 4s to Tom Thompson, miner of Rainford. Other child believed to be male. My grandmother was told she had a brother.
18 Dec 1906 - First newspaper reports appeared detailing events of 13 Oct, asking to find a new home for the child.Story was initially detailed at the Dec 1906 AGM of the St Helens branch of the NSPCC. Newspapers then ran the story and interviewed Tom Thompson's mother who was living with her son.
9 March 1907 - Tom Thompson appears in Ormskirk Magistrates Court for being drunk in charge of a child. 'Alice' is removed from the Thompsons by the NSPCC.
5 May 1907 (recent find) - 'Alice' baptised in Shamley Green Surrey by adoptive parents as Eva Alice Taylor. Parish register recorded her DOB as *6* July 1905.
1911 Census - With adoptive parents in Cricklewood London, aged 6, birthplace - Cricklewood and counted as a child to the marriage.
1930 - Eva Alice married, gave age as 2 years younger and adoptive father's name as father.

Research - see article that I had published Family Tree Magazine August 2010, also details events -

http://s16.postimg.org/o9c31pgt1/page1.jpg

http://s23.postimg.org/ii0kygbu3/page2.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/5kelple69/page3.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/m3swerzvd/page4.jpg


Have also tried Prescot Guardian Minutes.

Newspapers

Have since found 33 instances of the newspaper story reported in the UK, US, Wales and Australia.

Tom Thompson

Died 1933 in Billinge Hospital Lancs. He had one daughter, Ellen, born 1908. Married Tom Bradshaw 1928 in Orrell, Lancs. Had 3 children - Ellen 1929, Doreen 1933, Clifford 1936.
 


3
Travelling People / Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« on: Friday 28 June 13 08:28 BST (UK)  »
Adoptive mother lived in London most of her life. Her husband likewise, born in Kent. The story is that they adopted my grandmother when reading about her plight in the newspapers. Said newspaper article was produced, so I know that to be true. And I have since found copies of it myself in the newspaper archive. Though it was only mentioned in brief in London newspapers, so I do wonder what compelled them to adopt this particular child. They already had two of their own.  I have not found a Lancs. connection with either parents. Until I proved the newspaper story, I also wondered if they were relations and something had been covered up.

I have yet to locate two sisters of the adoptive mother after 1901, no idea where they were when all this went down. They had a common surname so have not been able to locate marriages.

The adoptive couple ran a newsagents so I assume they saw the story in detail in a Lancs. newspaper, but would they have stocked Lancs. newspapers and why take on a such a sensational case when they were already working from sun up to sun down?

I just don't know....

4
Travelling People / Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« on: Thursday 27 June 13 08:03 BST (UK)  »
Hi Rob

Thanks for the tip. I am stuck without a name - the organization connected to the case appears not to have kept my grandmother's adoption file. If not for newspapers, I would even have a date.

5
Travelling People / Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« on: Monday 24 June 13 12:33 BST (UK)  »
Hi Rob

Thanks for your help. I grew up with the story that the parents were gypsies. Newspaper reports described them as 'tramped about the country', the trade of the men - coopers. Or was Cooper their name? I have a detailed newspaper account which even mentions a neighbour noticing that my grandmother, aged 19 months, had been vaccinated 4 times. Yet, no one thought to ask names of the parents.

Couple #1 fostered my grandmother for a few months. I have their names and details etc. They gave her a name, Alice, because they didn't know her birth name.
Couple #2 adopted my grandmother informally (no legal adoption then). They baptised her with a new first name and middle name being the one couple #1 gave her. Have no idea if her forename, Eva, was her real name.

6
Travelling People / Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« on: Sunday 23 June 13 13:12 BST (UK)  »
I can only imagine what she thought. I think she felt lucky that she had found a relatively stable new life in London. She found out she was adopted when she was 17. It must have been a head spinner, and then add the circumstances, I can only imagine how she must have felt.

Later in life she was torn between wanting to know who she really was, but also worried what she might find. She had a brother, that's all she was told beside the scant details of her parents.

Thanks for your interest. :)

7
Travelling People / Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« on: Sunday 23 June 13 12:58 BST (UK)  »
I know. :) I have been digging for info since 1994. I have tried the welfare agency involved in my grandmother's case, but they say they have nothing in their records. If an adoption agency was involved I have no idea which one. There was nothing usual about this adoption. I have tried Guardian Minutes in Prescot and Ormskirk - nothing there.

I have newspaper reports of the case, but there is nothing there to give a clue as to who the birth parents were.

Strange coincidence -  the only other child baptised the same day as my grandmother in the same Surrey hamlet was the child of a gypsy couple, Frank and Britannia Lee. There were only 3 baptisms that month of May 1907.


8
Travelling People / Re: Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« on: Sunday 23 June 13 12:06 BST (UK)  »
I don't know my grandmother's birth name or where born. She was adopted in 1907. She was told snippets of the story about her parents - no names. Just that at the time they gave her up they were in the area of Rainford/St Helens. I don't have names, only dates and the temporary name of Alice given to her by her first foster parents. She was given a new name by second and final foster parents. Her baptism (1907), done in her adoptive mother's birth parish in Surrey (with new name) gives birth date as 6 July 1905.

It would appear that the parents were visiting Thatto Heath in October 1906, before continuing on to Southport. The husband many have been a cooper. They were described as gypsies, but I don't know if this was just a generalized term because of their no fixed abode status, or whether they were gypsies by birth.





9
Travelling People / Gypsy Route, St Helens-Southport
« on: Sunday 23 June 13 06:02 BST (UK)  »
Hi

Hoping someone can tell me if Thatto Heath has a gypsy connection? I am trying to trace my great-grandparents who were visiting Thatto Heath in 1906 and were described as 'tramping the countryside...last seen heading for Southport'. They were seen at a pub in Rainford, perhaps looking for work?

Was there a known route between St Helens and Southport for travellers?

I don't know my ancestor's surnames, still trying to confirm a gypsy connection.

Thanks


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