1
Laois (Queens) / Re: O'More, David, born around 1600-1630
« on: Thursday 03 September 15 19:06 BST (UK) »
No one with a bit of know-how on Irish midland families of the 1600's…? :-)
Best regards
Best regards
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2
Other Countries / Re: Wells, Mary married Tuite of St. Croix, West Indies
« on: Friday 14 August 15 09:24 BST (UK) »
No one with a tip on how I might proceed? 
3
Ireland / Re: Wife of Sir Oliver Tuite, 1st Baronet?
« on: Friday 06 February 15 17:56 GMT (UK) »
Would appreciate any further help with this puzzle immensely! 
4
Midlothian / Re: Brown/Broun, William, b. about 1697
« on: Thursday 11 December 14 14:34 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much for the tip on ScotlandsPeople! I managed to find him and his cordiner father James without much effort. He was born 1697-05-14 to James Broun and Hellen Patoun (married 1692-11-29). I wasn't however able to find his marriage to Margaret Huet, which in time produced a number of children, among them John Brown (born in 1723).
Another question, how do I best find James in birth records? There are many, many James Brouns born between the 1650's and the 1670's, many in just Edinburgh as well. And neither the marriage nor the birth record of the son William give any hint as to his age or birth.
Another question, how do I best find James in birth records? There are many, many James Brouns born between the 1650's and the 1670's, many in just Edinburgh as well. And neither the marriage nor the birth record of the son William give any hint as to his age or birth.
5
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / help with reading of profession (?)
« on: Thursday 11 December 14 13:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi!
On the bottom of the page, there is a James Broun married to Hellen Patoun. What does it say directly after his name?
Best regards
Copyright images removed by moderator
On the bottom of the page, there is a James Broun married to Hellen Patoun. What does it say directly after his name?
Best regards
Copyright images removed by moderator
6
Midlothian / Re: Brown/Broun, William, b. about 1697
« on: Thursday 11 December 14 11:14 GMT (UK) »
Anybody have any ideas on how I might proceed?
7
Ireland / Re: Wife of Sir Oliver Tuite, 1st Baronet?
« on: Saturday 06 December 14 17:06 GMT (UK) »
You're quite right about the possibility of some kind of dispute between the family members; as it happens so often even in our day, there is no reason to believe Irish nobility of the renaissance was in any way spared from it. Quite the contrary. If that was the case, was it enough reason for the Aylmers not to include Mabel's name, if she were their daughter, however? That seems to be the million-dollar-question…
Thinking about it, I remember there was indeed a dispute around this time and concerning this family, regarding the maternal grandfather of Julia Nugent, Gerald Fitzgerald, the 11th Earl Kildare. In his Wikipedia article, there is mention of his wife - incidentally also called Mabel - who "/.../ died in 1610, much troubled in her last years by a lawsuit brought by her grand-daughter Lettice, claiming that the Earl's will had been fraudulently altered." Lettice is also the 'alter ego' of Julia, the daughter of Gerald and Julia who married Barnewall; different sources seem to have different names for her, although as far as I can see they're always referring to the same daughter (i.e. the one who married Barnewall). In this case however I think the dispute might have involved a sister of Julia Nugent (the wife of Gerald); Lettice seems to be a name inherited in the family.
As does the name Mabel in these families, during this time. The 11th Earl's wife, as well as a sister of Julia Nugent bore the name; making it likely that if there was indeed a second daughter in the Aylmer family, she would have been a daughter of Julia and not of the first wife. I also don't really see any reason why the sources would be wrong about the lack of issue from the first marriage. On the other hand, if this is a case of 'wishful-thinking-genealogy' and that Mabel is a 'made-up' daughter of Gerald and Julia Aylmer, Mabel would have been a good choice of name, since its origin in the family lends the notion some credibility.
Thinking about it, I remember there was indeed a dispute around this time and concerning this family, regarding the maternal grandfather of Julia Nugent, Gerald Fitzgerald, the 11th Earl Kildare. In his Wikipedia article, there is mention of his wife - incidentally also called Mabel - who "/.../ died in 1610, much troubled in her last years by a lawsuit brought by her grand-daughter Lettice, claiming that the Earl's will had been fraudulently altered." Lettice is also the 'alter ego' of Julia, the daughter of Gerald and Julia who married Barnewall; different sources seem to have different names for her, although as far as I can see they're always referring to the same daughter (i.e. the one who married Barnewall). In this case however I think the dispute might have involved a sister of Julia Nugent (the wife of Gerald); Lettice seems to be a name inherited in the family.
As does the name Mabel in these families, during this time. The 11th Earl's wife, as well as a sister of Julia Nugent bore the name; making it likely that if there was indeed a second daughter in the Aylmer family, she would have been a daughter of Julia and not of the first wife. I also don't really see any reason why the sources would be wrong about the lack of issue from the first marriage. On the other hand, if this is a case of 'wishful-thinking-genealogy' and that Mabel is a 'made-up' daughter of Gerald and Julia Aylmer, Mabel would have been a good choice of name, since its origin in the family lends the notion some credibility.
8
Ireland / Re: Wife of Sir Oliver Tuite, 1st Baronet?
« on: Saturday 06 December 14 15:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Malky, thanks for the link!
I don't think I've read it, no - but then again this might be one of those early errors, (if it is indeed an error). None of the mentioned sources, including Burke's Peerage and similar compilations, mention any records whatsoever to back up the claim of Mabel's parentage… singularly frustrating.
The only source I've seen so far that deserves to be called 'primary' is the tomb, and the information springing from that is quite confusing as well.
Best regards
I don't think I've read it, no - but then again this might be one of those early errors, (if it is indeed an error). None of the mentioned sources, including Burke's Peerage and similar compilations, mention any records whatsoever to back up the claim of Mabel's parentage… singularly frustrating.
The only source I've seen so far that deserves to be called 'primary' is the tomb, and the information springing from that is quite confusing as well. Best regards
9
Ireland / Re: Wife of Sir Oliver Tuite, 1st Baronet?
« on: Saturday 06 December 14 12:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi Malky, thank you very much for your reply!
Yes, I believe I have seen the latest version of Burke's, after consultation with the editor of www.thepeerage.com, who also cites Mabel as daughter of Gerald and Julia with reference to Burke's. However it doesn't seem to shed more light on the matter, as I suspect one of the earlier sources must be erroneous somewhere, and that subsequent genealogies on the Aylmers have based it on this error.
Not claiming to know much about renaissance tombs of the Irish nobility, yet the inscription mentioning two children of the marriage seems to me to be of dire importance with regards to Mabel's identity. If she was indeed a legitimate daughter of the Aylmers, why was she not mentioned on the tomb inscription? Was she born after the creation of the tomb? Was she illegitimate? Or adopted, perhaps?
Best regards
Yes, I believe I have seen the latest version of Burke's, after consultation with the editor of www.thepeerage.com, who also cites Mabel as daughter of Gerald and Julia with reference to Burke's. However it doesn't seem to shed more light on the matter, as I suspect one of the earlier sources must be erroneous somewhere, and that subsequent genealogies on the Aylmers have based it on this error.
Not claiming to know much about renaissance tombs of the Irish nobility, yet the inscription mentioning two children of the marriage seems to me to be of dire importance with regards to Mabel's identity. If she was indeed a legitimate daughter of the Aylmers, why was she not mentioned on the tomb inscription? Was she born after the creation of the tomb? Was she illegitimate? Or adopted, perhaps?
Best regards