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Messages - Vivienne Luke

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1
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Sunday 05 May 19 06:06 BST (UK)  »
Hi Rosalind,
Thank you for your contribution to my research. How interesting that your ancestors had the Sportsman's Arms before mine did.
In 1881 Census, my great grandmother Ann Bickle (nee Ellacott) was with her first husband, Samuel Bickle who was licenced victualler at Notter Bridge. Samuel died in 1882. Ann then ran the pub for two years alone before marrying John Kempthorne (my great grandfather) in 1884 at St Stephens by Saltash church. They were running the Notter Bridge Inn at the time of the 1891 census. My grandfather, William Kempthorne had been born there in 1887. They then sold the Inn and moved in to Saltash.
Interestingly, John Kempthorne was a rogue. Ann had a strong relationship with her first husband Samuel Bickle and was eventually buried with him. John Kempthorne, her second husband and my ancestor, had changed his name after leaving the Marines. He was born Mark Kempthorne in East Newlyn. He had a bit of a record in the marines, and clearly a bit of a drinking problem. He reinvented himself as John Kempthorne and probably created a story to go with it! He was clearly a big drinker, which I think led to Ann selling up and moving to Saltash.
I have visited the Sportsman's Arms (in 2012) with two other descendants of Ann and John/Mark. We had a meal there and a good chat with the current (then) owners. My American cousin gave them some photos of the pub from the era when our ancestors were there. It is a lovely (if somewhat cold and damp) location.
William's daughter, May Kempthorne (born Saltash) was my mother. I was born in Cargreen, Cornwall in 1952 to May and Frank Luke. I now live in Tasmania, Australia.
Thanks again, it is lovely to hear from someone else who has ancestors who ran the Notter Bridge Inn/Sportsman's Arms.
Kind regards,
Vivienne

2
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Monday 09 June 14 09:00 BST (UK)  »
Hi Janey,
A voice from the past who you had hoped had disappeared. Returning to the search I had given up on, I decided to try another tack. I discovered that Mark Kempthorne from East Newlyn, who joined the Royal Marines in 1867 demobbed in 1879. He then disappears. His nephews emigrate to NZ along with his brother and other family members. No sight of him. Coincidently, John Kempthorne appears in St Germans (across the river from Plymouth, where Mark would have been delisted). The right age (approx), still a bachelor. He marries my g grandmother, and in three census returns 1891, 1901 and 1911, lists his birth place as East Newlyn (or something approximating that). Mark's parents are dead and his family spread out. He is in the 1861 census as a servant and is from a family of agricultural labourers, he resumes life as an agric labourer in 1881. I can't help thinking that my "John" and Mark are the same person. John appears at the same time that Mark disappears. John does not appear to exist before the 1881 census.
I have ordered Mark's service record from the Royal Archives.
Since you  have been so insightful in the past, I am wondering if there is any way I can prove my suspicions? My cousin is still waiting to get our male Y person to do the Family Tree DNA Y test. Hopefully, later this year.
I'd appreciate the benefit of your wisdom!  :D
Vivienne

3
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Wednesday 29 January 14 19:18 GMT (UK)  »
Oops, sorry Janey! Thanks for the reply. I did get confused as you had Smith as one of your ancestral names... You have amazing searching skills and found a lot of information very quickly. We will probably never know the connection with our family. I'll pass the info on to my cousin. I think we can dismiss any connection of the Smiths to Mark K. The Mark and James K remain a mystery as to where they went. Crossing fingers for the dna - but it will be some time before that happens. Thanks again.
Vivienne

4
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Wednesday 29 January 14 00:54 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Janey,
A quick question: re your mention of Smiths in Liverpool when referring to Mark K in the army. When going through her mum's things, my cousin found photos/addresses referring to some Smiths in the Liverpool area. We have no idea of the connection ourselves. There was a Mr and Mrs Smith with a daughter Dorothy. Also the address of a Gwen Smith at 5 Stanley Gardens, Orral Park, Liverpool. Also a Florence Smith with two children: Cyril and Fernley(?).
A long shot I know, but worth a try to see if any of the names are familiar to you.
Vivienne

5
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Tuesday 28 January 14 02:46 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Janey,
Unfortunately, the male in question is the oldest living supposed K descendant. His dad died some years ago. Still, it will be a start if it goes ahead. Let's hope something comes up to help us. This g gfather definitely did not want to be found!!!!

6
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Tuesday 28 January 14 01:38 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks Janey,
I'll forward your advice on to my cousin who is going to approach the male in question. I have ordered the full MDNA myself, but of course that won't help. I already have 23 and Me, but they don't do the full sequence, so I thought that I would try FamilyTreeDNA. My brother has agreed to be tested also. You are very thorough. If any other lightbulbs come on, please let me know as I am plum out of ideas myself.

7
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Tuesday 28 January 14 00:26 GMT (UK)  »
Well here I am again, still searching for that lost g grandfather. Janey you have been so helpful. However, I have followed up the Dennis line with no success. My cousin Joyce is going to chase up a male cousin Kempthorne to try and get a YDNA test done. No guarantee that he will agree though. I can't find Mark K after 1871 and Find My Past military records are no help. James K also disappears. A browse through FindMyPast emigration records was unsuccessful in finding either. Help.......

8
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Wednesday 18 December 13 10:34 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Janey, MiriamKinga and crimea1854,
So much food for thought. Janey, what an amazing story of your search and finding!
With regard to the Dennis/Kempthorne people, I have looked at this but can't find a connection that I can follow which might be mine.
I have been tested with 23andMe as has my brother, he has since died, but I do have his raw data. How did you follow up the testing and find the common thread?
I will return to Mark Kempthorne et al and see if I can find anything likely. I had given up this connection.
There was a John Daw born illegitimately in East Newlyn at around the right time, who was working with James Kempthorne at a farm in 1851. I've lost him after that. 
crimea1854, I will oder the service record for MK, just on the off chance.
I'm not sure whether him using John Thomas has any significance or whether this was made up also.
Miriam, I realise that the workhouse also functioned as a hospital, but there definitely was some form of estrangement as my mother remembered from her childhood that "he wasn't liked". Interestingly, there are no known relatives of him - his family was never mentioned, which speaks to me of hiding something.
Anyway, thanks very much to you all and if you think of anything else please let me know.
In gratitude. Vivienne

9
Cornwall Lookup Requests / Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Wednesday 04 December 13 21:29 GMT (UK)  »
The longer I work on this search, the more it seems that John Kempthorne is an invented name. Many things point to this - his absence before 1881, no birth/baptism record, no family stories about his background, the fact that his family put him in the workhouse to die while they took care of his wife and other family members until they died, no siblings or other family members known, his marriage as a relatively older man. I can accept this, but just don't know where to start to try and find any information about him.

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