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Messages - retiredfrommath

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1
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Monday 27 January 14 17:23 GMT (UK)  »
I probably should indicate how much research I have already done and what I have not done. 
WHAT I HAVE DONE
I have copies of a large number of wills and inventories and other records at Scotlands People including David Rennie's.  I went through the online Edinburgh newspapers reporting bankruptcies throughout Scotland in the years of interest to me.  I have had a number of paid researchers in Scotland including David Dobson (who writes the books) and one of the officers in the Scotland genealogical association.  I had a researcher I paid in Salt Lake City do between 1000 and 2000 hours of research, partially in Scotland.  I had researchers in Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island.  I had a hobbyist contact I traded data with who lived near the Canadian archives and many of whose ancestors were sent to Prince Edward island by David Rennie.  He read through all of the Prince Edward Island newspapers and property records and court cases several times looking for references to my relatives.  There is a book on David Rennie's stepson and a couple of books on the family one of his granddaughters married into.
I have so much that people of interest to you may accidentally lie in records I pulled.
WHAT I  HAVEN'T DONE
Some of the bankruptcies relevant to me occupy multiple volumes.  My Scotland researchers gave me summaries but it was too much for my researchers to go through carefully.  Some property records in Scotland are not indexed depending on whether the land was "Royal" or something like that related to the way fiefs worked.  There are some Glasgow property records that I don't have.  There are some places where I haven't checked ship records and others where I have.  David Dobson checked for Stuart and Rennie ships etc when he researched one of his books but I am not sure how well he covered Glasgow and Greenock newspapers.

2
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Sunday 26 January 14 14:01 GMT (UK)  »
Bankruptcy of George and James Wright

March 10, 1812  Edinburgh Advertiser  P. 9 (7?)
"               SCOTS BANKRUPTS
   GEORGE WRIGHT, one of the partners of JAMES
WRIGHT and Co. manufacturers, Glasgow.--Cre-
ditors to meet in the Prince of Wales Tavern, 9th
inst. and 7th April, at 11 o'clock, to chuse factor
and trustee.


January 31, 1812  Edinburgh Advertiser
P. 7
"           SCOTS BANKRUPTS, &c.
...
   GEORGE and JAMES WRIGHT, manufacturers,
Glasgow.--Creditors to meet in the trustee's count-
ing house, 18th Feb. at 1 o'clock, to decide on a
composition. 
"

January 3, 1812  Edinburgh Advertiser  P. 8
"           SCOTS BANKRUPTS.
...
               EXAMINATIONS, &c.
...
   GEORGE and JAMES WRIGHT, manufacturers,
Glasgow, to be examined 10th and 24th Jan. at 12
o'clock.--Creditors to meet in the trustees count-
ing-house, 25th Jan. at 12 o'clock.
"     

etc

3
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Wednesday 22 January 14 17:14 GMT (UK)  »
One of David Rennie's trustees was William Mills, provost of Glasgow during the later years of the trusteeship.  Note the newspaper connection of his son.
William Mills, Lord Provost, 1834-37
"
THE HON. THE LORD PROVOST,
            1834-37.
   William Mills of Sandyford was born at Lessudden in Roxburghshire in
the year 1776.  Of his parentage and early days we have no information.  In
youth, however, he went to America, where he remained long enough to
form business connections, which were maintained thoughout his life-
time.  As an importer of Cotton to this country, his name was well
and favourably known, in several of the most important centres of the
States, interested in the trade.
   Mr. Mills likewise did much to develop the steam trade of his
native country.  So far back as the year 1819, he commenced the traffic
betwixt the Clyde and the Mersey, and may be said to have been the
first to send an efficient steamer to sea, capable of standing all weathers.
This was the Robert Bruce the pioneer of so many fine vessels.
Subsequently he built the Superb, Majestic, and City of Glasgow, all of
which were employed on the station betwixt Liverpool and Greenock.
The Clyde above the latter port, at that period, being too shallow to
admit of their coming to Glasgow.
   In the year 1826 Mr. Mills and a fewe friends built, specially for the
trade betwixt London and Edinburgh, the celebrated steamer United
Kingdom.  This vessel was considered a great wonder in her day, and
served to inaugurate the class of steamers, which contained all the
luxuries of a palace on land, without losing any of their sea-going qualifica-
tions.  After parting with this vessel and otehrs named, he resigned the
trade to younger and fresher hands, but he refrained in future
from taking an active part in such speculations, he always felt proud of
the aid he had given to the development of this now great branch
of our national resources.
   Mr. Mills was a Baillie of the Barony of Gorbals, long before the
passing of the New Municipal Act, and a Baillie of Glasgow, the year
before he was made its Chief Magistrate.  His term of office as Lord
Provost extended from 1834 to 1837, and in his several magisterial
positions, he appears to have acquitted himself to the satisfaction of his
constituents and the citizens generally.  In politics he was a Whig, and
attached to the party that maintained the principles of that school
which had Charles James Fox, Earl Grey, and other celebrated statesmen
of the same stamp as their leaders.
   In private life Mr. Mills was well known and highly respected.  He
died in Glasgow, on the 8th November, 1857, in the eighty-first year of
his age,  His remains rest, in the family vault, in the Necropolis.
  <<signed William Mills>>
   George Mills, son of Provost Mills, died in Glasgow, aged 73 years, on
12th May 1881.  He was connected with the Steam-shipping
trade at Leith, and afterwards at Bowling.  When only 27 years of age,
during the time of his father's provostship, he contested the represent-
ation of this City, in the radical interest, against Lord William Bentinck,
but although the favourite at the hustings, he was defeated at the poll
by a considerable majority.  At a later period he became a Newspaper
Proprietor in Glasgow.  Not meeting with success which he expected,
he again turned his attention to the Steamboat traffic.  He built a
Saloon Steamer, on a novel principle, which attracted much notice at the
time, but ultimately proved a failure.  Again he tried Journalism and
started the North Star, the first Evening Newspaper published in
Aberdeen.  It had not, however, a very long existence.  As a writer of
Novels and Sketches of Scottish Life and Character he was more success-
ful.  His works are distinguished by humourous and graphic description,
and are among the best of their class.  He was a man of goodly presence, and had a
pleasant and cheery manner, which never deserted him, through all the
vicissitudes of his life.  He left behind him one son and two daughters.
"

4
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Monday 20 January 14 20:23 GMT (UK)  »
The only position David Rennie held in Glasgow I know of was found in the biography of another man for an 1818 role: "The Association of Underwriters was then formally arranged - Robert Douglas Alston being the first chairman, James Browne, David Lillie, and David Rennie being directors, and William Forrest secretary and treasurer."  My imperfect understanding is that Lloyds of London was discriminating against non-English ships and in 1817 David Rennie started implementation of a plan to develop his Prince Edward Island property and probably planned to go into the ship building business there.  He bought a ship independent of those owned by Stuart and Rennie and started settling people on his land on Prince Edward Island and one of the settlers sent on his ship the first year was the same Robert Orr I referred to earlier that ended up going into the ship building business.  Newfoundland had boomed during the Napoleonic Wars and crashed when it ended.  However these developments might be independent of his role in underwriting and some of the merchants he was associated with in Stuart and Rennie solved the problem by developing a South American market.
I should note that I should have the Glasgow University matriculation records for all the Rennies who went there(yours and mine) and maybe  1/3 of the whole list if I remember correctly.  They are all in Latin and specify the father of the student and other reasonably close relatives who matriculated there and give some bio details in many cases.
3667 ROBERTUS RENNIE natus in comitatu de Stirling filius natu minimus Joannis agricolae apud Kilsyth
   M.A. Glasg. 1781.  D.D. Aberdeen, 1808.  Minister of Kilsyth, 1789-1820, aged 53.  Brother-in-law of 6199, 6255 [George Stirling], 6596, having married their sister; father of 8041 [Alexander Home S. Rennie].
NOTE That when I give the name it means I either have a copy of the page that person is on or have some other way of inferring the name and when I don't give the name I probably don't have that page from the book they are in.  The minimus above means he was the youngest son.

5
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Monday 20 January 14 01:41 GMT (UK)  »
Robert Rennie married
   1) Barbara Black (4th daughter ofJohn Stirling b. 29th July, d.d 13th Nov       1794,
   2) Isabella Auchincloss or Mathie who died 22nd April 1837
      
Robert Rennie's children by Barbara Black
   Margaret Rennie born 14th Feb 1796 died 23rd July 1849,
   Alexander Horn Stirling Rennie M.D. Alresford Hants, born 6th June 1797
      died 10th Feb 1838, (England)
   Gloriana Rennie (twin to Alexander)
      born 12th died 30th Nov 1798, Jane Maria Stirling born 3rd Nov    
      1798, died at Glorat 1885. 2) 30th Dec 1802
Robert Rennie's children by Isabella Auchincloss or Mathie
   James Mathie Rennie born 17th July 1803 died 10th March 1806,
   Barbara Black Stirling Rennie born 23rd July 1806 (marr Thomas Alexander,
      manufacturer, Dunfermline.

April 30, 1816 Edinburgh Advertiser
“              DEATHS
...
   At Glasgow, WILLIAM CADELL, second
son of Mr. Benjamin Mathie, Writer.
“
<<IGI actual record says the birth occurred 30 Aug 1800
and the mother is Christina Cadell
A submitted record lists a sister Margaret bapt. 1799 >>

6
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Monday 20 January 14 01:41 GMT (UK)  »
University of Glasgow matriculation 1801
6255 GEORGIUS STIRLING filius natu quintus Joannis de Glarat Equitis Baronetti in com: de Stirling
   Born 22nd February, 1786.  Captain in the 9th Regiment.  Died at Portobello, 21st February, 1852.  Brother of
   6199, 6596; brother-in-law of 2354, 3667 [Robert Rennie]; uncle of 7152 [John Stirling Lapslie], 8041 
   [Alexander Home S. Rennie], 8661 [James Lapslie], 10129 [Andrew Lapslie], 10281 [Campbell A. G. Stirling],
   10596.

Going back to the children of George Wright and Jean Craig, the Mathie name occurs several times, both as middle names for the children and as the names of some of the witnesses. We now know that Rev. Robert Rennie’s second wife was Isabella Auchincloss or Mathie and so I assumed that the connection was to do with the Mathie family.
I found that James Mathie was married to Isabella (or Isobel) Auchincloss and they had several children, the first in 1784 and the last in 1792. This, I believe is the Isabella who later married Robert Rennie in 1802.
Next, I looked for the connection to George Wright and Jean Craig. We know that Jean’s father was William Craig and I found there was a Jean Craig, daughter of William Craig and Margaret Mathie (their fourth child) who was born on Barony and baptised on 10th August 1787 (Ref 622/3, Frame 708). From these dates my assumption is that Margaret Mathie, Jean Craig’s mother, was the sister of the James Mathie who married Isabella Auchincloss. So that would mean that Isabella (later Rennie) was Jean Craig’s aunt.



The last thing I did was to look at the family of Robert Rennie in Kilsyth to see if any of the OPR entries for the family listed witnesses.
His first marriage, to Barbara Black Stirling took place in 1793:-


OPR for Kilsyth, Ref 483/5, Frame 1273
1793. 10 October. The Revd Mr Robert Rennie Minister of the Gospel of the Parish of Kilsyth and Miss Barbara Black Stirling fourth lawful daughter to Sir John Stirling of Glorat, Baronet in Campsie Parish gave up their names for proclamation in order to marriage. They were married 22 October.

The births of their children were noted as follows:-

OPR for Kilsyth, Ref 483/5, Frame 1231
1794. Renny. The Rev Mr Robert Renny Minister of the Gospel of the Parish of Kilsyth and Barbara Black Stirling his wife had a Son named John Stirling Renny born 5th Augt Bapt 15th sd. Month. Witnesses Alexr Brash & Matthew Shaw Elders.

OPR for Kilsyth, Ref 483/6, Frame 1293
1796. Baptised 28 March. Parents – The Rev Mr Rennie & Barbara Black Stirling. Children – Margaret. Abode – Manse. Witnesses – Revd Mr Dun & Mr McLean.

OPR for Kilsyth, Ref 483/6, Frame 1296
1797. Baptised June 13. Parents - The Red Mr Rennie & Barbara Black Stirling. Children – Alexr Home Stirling & Gloriana (twins). Abode – Manse. Witnesses – blank.

OPR for Kilsyth, Ref 483/6, Frame 1302
1799. 15 Novr. The Revd Mr Rennie and Barbara Black Stirling had a daughter born the 3rd of Novr and baptised the 13th of same month 1799 named Jane Maria. Witnesses Alexr Rennie & John Miller.

Robert then married Isabella Auchincloss in 1802:-


OPR for Glasgow, Ref 644/27, Frame 3052
29th August 1802. Mr Robert Rennie, Minister of Kilsyth & Isobel Auchincloss, Residenter in Glasgow, Married 30th August by Mr Jonathan Rankin one of the Ministers of Paisley.

They had two children:-

OPR for Kilsyth, Ref 483/6, Frame 1319
13th Augt 1803. The Revd Mr Robt Rennie and Isabella Auchincloss had a son born 17th July and baptized 14th August 1803 named James Mathie.

OPR for Kilsyth, Ref 483/6, Frame 1335.
16th Aug 1806. The Revd Mr Robt. Rennie Minister and Isabella Auchincloss had a daughter born the 24th July & baptised 17 Augt 1806 named Barbara B Stirling.

CRAIG RELATIVES

George Wright married Jean Craig

Jean Craig is the daughter of William Craig and Margaret Mathie (their fourth child) who was born on Barony and baptised on 10th August 1787 (Ref 622/3, Frame 708).

Margaret Mathie is assumed to be the sister of James Mathie.

James Mathie was married to Isabella (or Isobel) Auchincloss and they had several children, the first in 1784 and the last in 1792. This, I believe is the Isabella who later married Robert Rennie in 1802.


MATHIE RELATIVES
"I found that James Mathie was married to Isabella (or Isobel) Auchincloss and they had several children, the first in 1784 and the last in 1792. This, I believe is the Isabella who later married Robert Rennie in 1802."


7
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Monday 20 January 14 01:38 GMT (UK)  »
I had a researcher I used to use look into Robert Rennie and I think the material I have is below
-------------
RENNIE CONNECTION

In my last report, I noted that Rev. Robert Rennie of Kilsyth was the Minister who married George Wright and Jean Craig. The brief was to find the family connection to Robert Rennie.
I started by looked at Rev. Robert Rennie’s will. He died on 10th July 1820 and his will (Ref SC36/51/1, Folio 265) names, as his executors, his wife Isabella, Sir Samuel Stirling of Glorat, Baronet, David Mathie, Writer, Glasgow, Captain George Stirling of the 9th Regt of Foot, John Corbet of Auchincloch, Andrew Peebles Merchant in Dunfermline, Alexander Rennie, his brother, Alexander Marshall of the Colony of Demerara, Doctor of Medicine and Henry Marshall, cousin, presently in the Military service in the Island of Ceylon.
In the will, he has the usual clause to pay his debts and leaves the rest to his wife Isabella. On her death it is to be divided amongst his children. His son, Alexander Horne Stirling Rennie, a Merchant, is mentioned, as is Roberts’ first wife Barbara B. Stirling.
Next, I looked at the Fastii Eccleasia Scoticanae which is a series of volumes of short biographies of all the Church of Scotland Ministers. Vol 3 for the Synod of Glasgow and Ayr, Page 479 – Kilsyth – has the following:-


Robert Rennie, born 1767, son of John R., Farmer in the parish; educated at Univ. of Glasgow; MA (1781); licen by Presb of Paisley 26th Sept 1787; pres. by George III 4th July (scored out and replaced by 13th June) and ord. 3rd Sept 1789; D.D. (Aberdeen 1808); died 10th July 1820. He took much interest in the study of peat moss and its conversion into arable land and manure. He declined the Professorship of Agriculture in the Univ. of St Petersburg, offered him by Czar Alexander 1, who presented him with a massive gold ring and other gifts. He married 1) 22nd Oct 1793 Barbara Black (born 8th May 1777 died 12th July 1800) fourth daugh. of Sir John Stirling of Glorat Bart. and had issue - John Stirling born 29th July and died 13th Nov 1794, Margaret born 14th Feb 1796 died 23rd July 1849,Alexander Horn Stirling M.D. Alresford Hants, born 6th June 1797 died 10th Feb 1838, Gloriana born 12th died 30th Nov 1798, Jane Maria Stirling born 3rd Nov 1798, died at Glorat 1885. 2) 30th Dec 1802 Isabella Auchincloss or Mathie who died 22nd April 1837 and had issue James Mathie born 17th July 1803 died 10th March 1806, Barbara Black Stirling born 23rd July 1806 (marr Thomas Alexander, manufacturer, Dunfermline). (List of publications).

continued in next post

8
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Sunday 19 January 14 18:51 GMT (UK)  »
The death related records do say he died at age 58 but the 8 is a little ambiguous.

9
Stirlingshire / Re: Rennie-Mathie family, business & marital connections
« on: Sunday 19 January 14 17:27 GMT (UK)  »
Glasgow  Herald, 17 Jan 1823.
“         DIED
...
At Glasgow on the 7th instant, Mr David Rennie”

His wife had died two years earlier.  He had very prominent trustees to his estate and was buried in the Cathedral.
"High Church, New Burying Ground, Register of Lairs, No. 1, No. 38, David Rennie - DRIPING ISLE.

(From Alan McPherson)
I am just back from 2-and-a-half weeks in Scotland, and can report that I
was in Glasgow one day to visit the Mitchell Library.  I can confirm that
the reference to David Rennie's burial on the "Driping Isle" in the New
Burial Ground at the High Kirk (St Mungo's Cathedral) was correctly rendered
for other burials as the "Dripping Aisle".  I visited the site, opened in
1801, but the gravestones are all recumbent flat stones, most of them with
the inscriptions completely erased by feet and weather."
Alan McPherson is a retired professor from Newfoundland who hoped to cowrite another biography of David's stepson, William Eppes Cormack (explorer of the Newfoundland interior and founder of an Institute to study the Beothuck Indians)  but never finished it.

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