RootsChat.Com

Hi Linda

Have you found the baptism entry for Satah Ellen Hyam at Lan OPC yet?
It is under Liverpool Central, St Peter, 1864-1865.

Sarah Ellen Hyam
Parents: Charles and Ellen Hyam
Baptism: 6 March 1865 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire.
Born: 15 February 1865
Abode: Naylor Street
Occupation: Coppersmith
Baptised by A J Tomlin, Curate
Register of Baptisms 1864-1865, Page 388
Entry 3104
Source: LDS Film 93892

Hi Linda

Thankyou for researching and sending me all those couples.  You have been busy.  I had seen the Ellen Taylor one before.

I have been having a break from ancestry research for a few days, as I have been working on other projects, and also found the whole Thomas Hyam search a little frustrating.

Firstly, to save you a little time, my facts that I have compiled, have  the family, (Charles, Ellen and Thomas Hyam)  living in Upwell, Norfolk, at least up until late 1864.  So any Liverpool stats before this time probably wouldn't be this family.
They would have moved to Liverpool in late 1864 or early 1865, and the next available record is Sarah Ellen's birth and baptism, February 1865. So I have only looked for them in Liverpool after this time.

I would say that Charles and Ellen were married prior to the 1851 Census, as it records  Ellen as a Hyam.  Ellen was born in 1818, Bradfield, Berkshire.  I can't find her birth certificate yet, but the only tips I have for her maiden name is either Barker or Berkin.

Thomas came along in 1856, Norwich, Norfolk, as we sort of know.

Maybe the move to Liverpool was to find a pub to run as there were alot of pubs there. The Brunswick Tavern, Preston, Lancashire is the only reference that comes close.

In 1881, the two children were living and working for Noah Fitt, in St. Pancras, London.
Thomas probably got work at the Royal Arsenal after this.

I know you say all this is no good without certificates.  True  I agree.  The only thing that makes me not consider Thomas Cornelius is this:
His father was Cornelius Hyam b. 1811, not Charles as on the Marriage Certificate. Both are publicans and deceased though.
Thomas Cornelius was born in 1855. Thomas was born in 1856.
Thomas Cornelius was born in Brandon, Norfolk. Thomas was born in Norwich, Norfolk.
The Cornelius name wasn't used for any of Thomas and Emma Hyam's children, but Charles was.
Cornelius was in jail from Feb 1884 to 1889. Not lleaving amuch time upon release to meet and marry Emma Jane, living a distance away, in Plumstead, Woolwich.

Anyway, the certificates may never be found. But I know that Nan said it was Charles and Ellen,  that were Charles Hyam 1907's grandparents.

Hi Linda

Back again.  Yes, it is The Genealogist website.

If you would like, try this.
Go to The Genealogist website home page. You should see Master Search come up.
Fill in Thomas Hyam  year of interest 1861.
Search.

554 results. Page 3, halfway down.
Thomas Hyam, age 5,  born 1856.
Norfolk 1861 Census.

More details button, only if you have a subscription.

Sharon

Hi Linda

Happy New Year to you.

I will try and recap on what information I have so far.  The reason that I know it is Charles and Ellen Hyam, is that it was handed down to me and Mum, first hand from my grandmother Annie Elizabeth Catherine Hyam, wife of Charles born 1907.

When I was about 12 years old, I was sitting with Mum and Nan.  Mum asked Nan, what name was Dad's father?
Nan replied Thomas.
Mum said who was his father/parents?
Nan replied Charles and Ellen.  He ran a pub.

So that was about it.

As for facts or sources or certificates...

So far I have got Charles Hyam on a census, born in 1825.

I don't have his marriage to Ellen.

I have them on the 1851 Census, living at Hadley Green, just the two no children.

I did find, while scouring, a lead, which showed the 1861 Census, and it had a Thomas Hyam, age 5, living in Norfolk, England. But because I am not a paid member  I couldn't access it.  I only have a subscription to Ancestry.com.  I think it was after doing a search on ' The Genealogist ' website. I really wanted to access it as I thought this could be a key piece.  I don't know if you are a member?  I can't remember if it was that site for sure, as I have been on all of them.

Next I discovered, that  Thomas Hyam had a sister, named Sarah.  So as I searched, I found that her birth and baptism was in 1865 St Peyers Liverpool. That is all on Lancashire OPC. Charles is a Coppersmith.

The only pub reference I have dug up, is a  Charles Higham (perhaps the name was transcribed by sound).  And he was landlord of The Brunswick Tavern (or  Brunswick Inn) in Liverpool, in 1870.  This would tie in with Sarah Ellen (her middle name after her Mother) being born in Liverpool 1865.
But no record of how many years or other pubs he managed.

The only death record I can find  for Charles is on FreeBMD under 'Male Hyam'  Holborn, England, I forget the year at present.

I thought I had Thomas's birth, but not yet, my mistake.  It is supposed to be in Norwich, 1856.  Nor can I find Charles and Ellen's marriage. 

But many of the siblings of Thomas have children that are still alive.  Like Thomas William's children.  Other  ones, Emily's. I wonder if any of them know.  I have the addresses and phone numbers of two so far, but havn't called.

Any thoughts?

Sharon

Hi Linda

No it's ok, no need for email or private messaging, i'm not sure how to do that as I am not familiar with this site.

In response to your last email, I thought that you said Charles Hyam born 1825 came from Thetford, somewhere in one of your posts.

The couple I found show that Charles was born in Thetford.

As you say, proving Thomas's birth is a tough search. For some reason it seems like it wasn't recorded.

I just wanted to let you know that Thomas's parents were Charles and Ellen, as that was handed down to me.

It definitely wasn't Cornelius Craddock.

Sharon