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Messages - dave-at-london

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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Friday 12 January 18 20:02 GMT (UK)  »
Bruce Chandler showed me Belton House, which I would describe as a family compound at 2 Castle Street. Yes this is the same thing. It's easy to imagine the present buildings being home to several branches of the same family. And they were all blacksmiths - farriers. In those days putting shoes on horses and making metal carts was the equivalent to being a car dealer today I suspect. Quite a lucrative living.

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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Friday 12 January 18 19:57 GMT (UK)  »
These are the daughters I see for James McKay Smith and Mary Sadlier:
Mary, William's twin 1868
Elizabeth Anne 1870
Jane 1872
Rebecca Emma 1874 died 1880
Margaret 1879
Constance Eva Rebecca 1881 (sometimes referred to as Rebecca, having been born just after her elder sister's death). I have her marrying an Edward Horne, and it appears her mother lived with her in her later years.
Anne Alice born 1893, and something in my grandfather's records give a date of death as 1965, two years before his death.
 
So is Eileen Violet being suggested as William's youngest child? and is Eveylyn (spelling?) the unnamed child who died very young? My first thought was these were being suggested as siblings of James John and William, but the dates suggest I was misreading the intention.


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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Friday 12 January 18 19:17 GMT (UK)  »
I didn't know Ellen's maiden name, which you say is Paul. I have marriage date as 1893 based on something in the 1911 census. Five children, one died very young and no name given. There was a son - another James McKay (named after his grandfather) born c1894, Mabel Ellen born c1896, Ethel c1900 and Eileen c1905. It is a mystery to me where the middle name McKay came from. I was thinking it might suggest other places to look for ancestors, but nothing in the Bray records I could find gave a hint. The original James McKay and Mary Sadlier were married in Dublin - not in Bray - and I guess he worked there for a while. The Smiths of Bray really were smiths by profession, and quite well-off judging by the property they owned. After they married he returned to the family business in Bray, where he died when my grandfather was very young. So my grandfather was a spoiled brat (I have been told) surrounded by older sisters and a mother - his only brother William having left home, probably before James John was born. Is any of this a help to you?

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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Friday 12 January 18 18:53 GMT (UK)  »
James John born 1885 was my grandfather, went to UK in 1920s with his wife Edith May Taylor and three children all born in Adare Co Limerick. Elizabeth, Alan (my father) and Maurice. They lived in Newmarket and he was a horse breeding consultant. My understanding is he was persona non grata in Adare (I think because he was a land agent's employee - rent collector). William was the oldest of the family, and had a twin sister, Mary. I have a lot of information on the Smith family in Bray from data in St Paul's churchyard, so I can go back to the 1790s or so. I would very much like to know how you fit in the picture. I have very little information on the offspring of the brothers and sisters of my grandfather, other than that supplied to me by Bruce Chandler who met with me in Bray in 2015. It wasn't until after I met him I found the maiden name of Mary Sadlier. My guess is it would be a lot easier if we could communicate directly, but I'm not sure if the rules allow us to do that. I live in London, Ontario, Canada. Are you able to make a quick call to Canada 011 519 471-7219 to make more meaningful contact? Or am I violating the rules by suggesting that. I suspect we might be able to supply each other with a lot of data.

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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Tuesday 11 August 15 14:55 BST (UK)  »
Obviously I have been looking in the wrong places, but given the very few times I have come across the name James Sadlier, both of these seem possible. Thank you.

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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Monday 10 August 15 19:06 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for the leads. I would be very interested if you could give me leads going backwards to Mary's and Rebecca's father (James, a tenant farmer, very likely a tenant of Guy Lloyd who I have found in Burkes Peerage) in Croghan, Co Roscommon. Mary was born c1849 in Croghan. So far that search has not yielded fruit. I'm thinking that the records are very sparse, but then I'm no expert at this.

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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Thursday 06 August 15 17:31 BST (UK)  »
Interesting thought about Rebecca. They did recycle names a lot, at least in the Bray family. Mary's first daughter was also Mary, her second was Elizabeth (after her paternal grandmother), third was Jane (after a paternal aunt), then Rebecca who died young in 1880, then Margaret (no antecedant that I am aware of), then Constance Eva Rebecca (the Rebecca likely being a nostalgic throw-back to her sister who died the year before she was born, and who appears as Rebecca in the 1901 and 1911 censuses), and finally Anne Alice (after another paternal aunt). As to the boys, I am aware of five different Samuels, four different Williams and four different James, two of whom had the middle name McKay. all of which makes for a very confusing family tree - then add to that most of them had the last name Smith. Sadlier is a nice change.

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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Thursday 06 August 15 14:55 BST (UK)  »
It sure is - everything matches - we knew he didn't get married in Bray, and Dublin would have been a best guess. They did move back to Bray, where all their 9 children were born between 1868 and 1885. Many thanks for this. I note info as well on Rebecca, which interestingly was also the name she gave one of her 7 daughters born 1874. Very many thanks - and now I know her father's name, there is another hint to follow. Brilliant !!!

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Roscommon / Re: Jolley (Jolly) / Sadlier (Sadlier) family Croghan, Killapogge, Roscommon County
« on: Wednesday 05 August 15 20:08 BST (UK)  »
Hunting the web for Sadlier Croghan I came upon this. I have just found out my great grandmother's maiden name was Mary Sadlier and she is listed in the 1901 census as being born in Croghan. 52 years old at the time, so date of birth likely 1849 (in the midst of the famine). Does this tie in with any of the information available to you? She was C of I, and married a James McKay Smith of Bray. She was not married in Bray, so this is another problem to resolve. Any pointers would be of interest.

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