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Messages - RSMcDd

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Aberdeenshire / Re: Crathie and Braemar, Scotland, McDonald Family
« on: Monday 20 June 22 13:13 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: RSMcDd on Thursday 16 June 22 12:42 BST (UK)
I do know for certain that he was in NSW by 1848 when he purchased some land in Upper Bankstown.

Apologies I misspoke, I know for certain he was in NSW by 1850 when he married. He purchased land in Bankstown in 1853.


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Aberdeenshire / Re: Crathie and Braemar, Scotland, McDonald Family
« on: Thursday 16 June 22 16:20 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Forfarian on Thursday 16 June 22 14:22 BST (UK)
I don't quite see why SP indexes it like that.

I don’t understand why they index like that either. I imagine it has something to do with the way the original records were kept perhaps, or a significance in the Fort Augustus history? I’m not familiar enough with the local machinations of that particular parish to have an opinion. I just wrote it as it’s recorded so it’s easy to locate for anyone looking, particularly given the researcher for whom the information was pertinent had been directed to the wrong county for place of origin. I agree that it’s curious though.

Quote from: Forfarian on Thursday 16 June 22 14:22 BST (UK)
The obvious route from Braemar to Strathspey is by the Lairig Ghru, which is a challenging day's walk for a fit walker - 28 miles from Braemar to Aviemore. Then you'd follow the Spey for about 30 miles to Garva Bridge, and take the Corrieyairack Pass (14 miles, with 500 metres climbing) to Fort Augustus. Total over 70 miles, plus climbing. You might do it in a day if you were riding a good horse, but if you were flitting with your family and your goods and chattels in a cart, you'd probably take 3 days or even longer.

I very much appreciate your attention to detail here! You sound familiar with the terrain. Thank you for taking the time. I suppose I was speaking in more general terms to illustrate that the distance is not inconceivable to travel to find work. I used a basic measure calculating the walking time from Boleskine House to Braemar on modern maps. But given that both Boleskine House and Fort Augustus are on the far side of the parish from Braemar, and we don’t know precisely where within the parish they traveled from, it’s possible the distance was far less in any case. If you also take into account that family lore thought this Alexander came from Aberdeenshire, it’s very possible his family of origin lived close to the border between parishes. If it helps, the people in question making the journey were two young and presumably fit (they worked as agricultural labourers) men, so I imagine they could make good time if they needed to.

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Aberdeenshire / Re: Crathie and Braemar, Scotland, McDonald Family
« on: Thursday 16 June 22 12:42 BST (UK)  »
A few updates for anyone that still reads and or stumbles across this thread:

Regarding Donald McDonald’s arrival in Australia - I’ve not been able to verify his arrival on the David Clarke in 1839 as the family tree I inherited states. So his precise arrival is still a mystery. I do know for certain that he was in NSW by 1848 when he purchased some land in Upper Bankstown. At that time he gave his occupation as ‘gentleman’ so he must have accrued some money at some point and it’s possible he came unassisted.

There is also a potential match for Donald in the 1841 Scottish census in Dunfermline, Fife where at least one other sibling appears to have ended up, so it could be that the window for immigration is between 1841 and 1848.

Quote from: CMacDonaldL on Tuesday 06 May 14 01:58 BST (UK)
I think My great great great grandfather is Alexander born in 1809.  His son John was born in 1835 and they immigrated to PEI Canada in 1844.  Alexander married Jean Leys in 1796.  We know our Alexander was from Aberdeenshire.  John married Flora Jane MacDoanld in 1860 in PEI.  I am hoping this is the family you are asking about.

I can confirm that Alexander McDonald who married Jean Leys and emigrated to PEI is NOT the Alexander born 1809 to Angus and  McDonald.

Alexander and Jean were fairly easy to track down in the 1841 Scottish census living at ‘Mileshouse’ Crathie & Braemar with four of their children. (No mention of James and Norman, they may have been born later, but their is another daughter, Catherine which fits to a correlating baptism). They are recorded as ‘Donald’ but I’ve come across this before when researching ‘McDonald’ and it’s possible it’s a transcribing error. What’s of particular note is that there is a Norman McDonald also living their who appears to be Alexander’s brother.

Alexander Donald, 30 (abt 1811) Ag lab
Jane Donald, 30 (abt 1811)
John Donald, 6 (abt 1835)
Margaret Donald, 4 (abt 1837)
Jane Donald, 2 (abt 1839)
Catherine Donald, 1 (abt 1840)
Norman Donald, 35 (abt 1806) Ag Lab
Janet Muno, 15 (abt 1826) F.S.
James Mcgregor, 25 (abt 1816) Ag Lab
John Gordon, 20 (1821) Ag Lab

The 1841 census didn’t record where individuals were born, but it does note whether or not individuals were born in their county of residence and neither Alexander or Norman were born in Aberdeenshire. It could be that some wires were crossed in the family lore, CMacDonaldL, Jean Leys was born in Aberdeenshire, the marriage took place in Crathie and Braemar and the children were born there so that might be where that idea came from.

I did find their baptisms though. I did a ten year range search for Norman first as it’s a less common name in Scotland, and got less than a dozen hits, which I then crossed referenced with Alexander and got an exact date match for both.

MACDONALD Norman
14/06/1806
Parents: Donald MacDonald/Elizabeth Mackay
Boleskine and Abertarff or Fort Aug, Inverness-shire

MACDONALD Alexander
04/02/1811
Parents: Donald MacDonald/Betty Mackay
Boleskine and Abertarff or Fort Aug, Inverness-shire

That’s roughly a day’s journey from Braemar (contemporary to the time).

Circling back to Angus and Margaret’s family.

The census records ciderdrinker provided for Charles and John are a certain match. There are a couple of possible matches for Angus and James, which require further investigation to be certain which is the right one, but my research has me leaning toward the above mentioned records.

Thanks to excerpts from the Duff House/Montcoffer/Rose papers we know that Angus and Margaret moved from Dubrach to Aucherey (Archery/Archerey/Aurchery) in the Dee-side (specifically Glen Ey) around 1815 and at some point eldest son Charles took over that holding (confirmed in 1841 census). The family removed during the clearances and were reported to have ended up in Dunfermline and Forgandenny, which census records show is where James and William ended up respectively. Charles was the last the leave the Glen, relocating to West Lothian where John, Alexander, Margaret and Angus were already residing.

I hope this all helps shed a bit more light.


4
Midlothian / Re: Agnes McCall b Dalkeith 1826
« on: Wednesday 15 June 22 05:13 BST (UK)  »
‘Torwood’ still stands today. It’s a lovely house, though sadly the grounds have long since been subdivided.

Regarding Immigration - John McCall jr and Margaret McCall were both bounty immigrants on board the Charlotte in January 1840. There is also a record of a John ‘McColl’ on board, travelling unassisted. I think it’s fair to assume this is likely John McCall Sr.

Agnes (as Agnes McCaul) and Eliza (as Elisa McCall) are recorded as bounty immigrants the following year, arriving in July 1841 (so just missing the 1841 Scottish census). Their records state their mother Jean/Jane/Janet is on board, though i’ve not been able to locate her. It’s possible she was traveling under a different surname which was not uncommon if an application had been rejected under their own name. This is the earliest record of these two sisters I’ve been able to locate.

I’ve not come across immigration records, vitals or family notices for William in Australia. I’ve always assumed he either predeceased the move or stayed behind. Though I haven’t done a deep dive to prove the theory.

I wasn’t aware of a sixth sibling. Can you add any information there, Dave?

The 11 June 1813 marriage date doesn’t appear on Scotland’s People, though it would be about right given the existing banns records. Can I ask where it comes from?

The 21 May 1813 is actually a proclamation of marriage (banns). There is a second proclamation on the 29 May in Dalkeith.

There are a few interesting things to note in both of them. Jean Howden’s father is named both times as John Howden residing in Dalkeith, which fits with the NSWBDM Index, though I haven’t seen the death record itself. I’m not sure where James comes from?

The other thing is John McCall’s profession. On the 21st of May it is given as Clock and Watchmaker. Whilst on the 29th it is given as Musician, 1st Regiment, Royal Lancashire Militia. There is enough other matching information for this not to immediately preclude them from being the same individual.

The RLM were, in fact, posted to Dalkeith in December 1812 and their Drum and fife band were apparently quite reputed,so it’s possible the title was still used even after he discharge for the popular association. Lancashire is just a hop, skip and a jump across the water from Ireland, with direct lines between main ports of Dublin and Liverpool/Blackpool. If an individual didn’t want to join the militia it was possible to substitute someone on their behalf if they paid a fee and found a substitute. If John McCall had travelled over from Ireland looking for work he could well have subbed for someone and found himself in Dalkeith towards the end of his tenure. The RLM went on to be posted to Ireland in March 1814 and if their was rumblings of this prior, it would explain why he didn’t reup his service not wanting to be on the opposing side to his countrymen. Furthermore Jean Howden appears to have had a brother who was also a clock and watchmaker and this could explain how Mccall entered the profession.

It’s a working theory. I don’t currently have full access to FindMyPast to check enlistment and discharge records and unfortunately the muster rolls are only in hard copy in Kew, so I can’t take it any further at this stage.

As Colin mentioned, there’s no clear fit for birth for either John McCall or Jean/Jane Howden. Irish Records can be tough as so many of them were destroyed and as far as Jean/Jane goes, I suspect her date of birth and/or mother’s name may possibly have been mis-recorded on her death certificate/headstone, though perhaps the records just didn’t survive.

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Aberdeenshire / Re: Crathie and Braemar, Scotland, McDonald Family
« on: Saturday 03 October 15 07:12 BST (UK)  »
Hi there, I hope you still check this thread from time to time! I too trace my line back to Angus and Margarate (Margaret) McDonald of Crathie and Braemar. Their son Donald is my GGG Grandfather.

I have pretty comprehensive info on the Donald line post 1802(more specifically regarding Margaret, John and Jessie), thanks to a family tree  I've inherited which i assume (hope) is pretty accurate, BUT:

I have been trying in vain to learn more about Angus for whom I only have a possible (unverified) birth date of 1771 in Dubrach, Braemar and a marriage date (10.01.1796) to Margarate/Margaret (nee MacDonald of Cabrach b1775), who I am also trying to trace.

I would be very grateful for any info you might be able and willing to share on Angus and Margaret, ie birth/death dates, locations, parents names and dates etc, anything at all.

Regarding Donald's emigrating to Australia, garrydarby, I have it as being: Arrived Aust - 1839 (Port Phillip Bay, Victoria) on board the David Clarke. Hope that helps.

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