Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Chapbrook

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 6
1
The Common Room / Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« on: Monday 26 November 18 23:13 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: akawither on Monday 26 November 18 20:47 GMT (UK)
Hi. Im a new member and came across your discussion of Grangegorman. I think i can beat your 46 years. My grandfather seems to have been held there for 55 years until 1986. Can you explain how you got access to your relatives records. I have emailed the grangegorman site with no luck. Did you get photocopies sent to you or did you visit Dublin?
Thanks for any help
Bernard

Hi Bernard

The link posted is the one that I followed during my search. The whole process seemed rather convoluted at the time and there were several conditions I had to satisfy to comply with the FOI requests, but with patience (and as long as records are in fact held for your grandfather) then you should eventually be able to see them.

In my case, the national archives told me that whilst they held the collection for the Richmond Lunatic Asylum, the hospital itself still acted as 'data controllers' and consequently I would have to submit my enquiry to them. They gave full contact details.

I must say that everybody I corresponded with at the National Archive and the hospital adminstrators were exceptionally helpful at all times. I wasn't even charged for the photo copies which they eventually sent!

Good luck in your search and if you want any further help please let me know

Regards, Spence Chaplin

2
The Common Room / Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« on: Thursday 03 August 17 21:52 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Rena on Thursday 03 August 17 18:10 BST (UK)
Poor man.  I wonder if he was tried in court.

Attempting suicide was illegal and a punishable crime.  The UK decriminalised suicide in 1961 and Eire followed suit in 1993.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/11/enacted/en/print

CRIMINAL LAW (SUICIDE) ACT, 1993
AN ACT TO ABOLISH THE OFFENCE OF SUICIDE
This Act shall come into operation one month after the date of its passing.
Suicide shall cease to be a crime.

Hi

Thanks for that link. I'm surprised how relatively recently it was decriminalised although a quick check online shows that it is still a crime in several countries outside Europe.

There was no reference in the asylum documents to suggest that he was charged with an offence. I do know though that his online army record refers to a Court of Inquiry held before he was discharged. (I assume that was an internal army investigation). Unfortunately, the result/outcome was not detailed amongst the other online records. Presumably, there will be a record of this held somewhere. I need to dig deeper!

Regards
Spence Chaplin

3
The Common Room / Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« on: Thursday 03 August 17 14:28 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Sinann on Monday 03 July 17 15:16 BST (UK)
It's a Civil Registration record not a church record (see the top of the image), the words church records always comes up in the address I think because it links into the captcha which is held in the church records part of the site.

It is very sad if it turns out he was there for so long, but you have to bear in mind at that time there was a terrible stigma attached to any sort of metal illness and he had committed a crime so his family wouldn't have been allowed to help him. They may even have been told he was dead. He would have been better off going to prison at least then he had a chance of release at some point but it's highly likely once he was in the mental hospital he became institutionalized.
Sadly he is likely buried in Grangegorman, the graves are I believe unmarked.
I hope the records answer your questions and it turns out he only returned to the hospital later in life.

Hi

Just wondered if you might be interested in hearing how my enquiries panned out.

Through FOI, I applied for and have now received copies of various records from Richmond Asylum/Grangegorman concerning my Grt Uncle, Albert Chaplin.

Sadly, he did indeed remain in Grangegorman and other mental hospitals until his death in 1958. That's an incredible 46 years after his committal. Amongst the papers were details of his next of kin along with their addresses. There was a copy of a rather sweet note my grandfather had written to the Asylum in 1915 enquiring about the progress of his brother. I imagine he received a reply but there is no record of it.

Then almost 20 years later letters were sent to my grandad and my grandad's sister informing them that Albert was temporarily being moved to another hospital ( I suspect for an operation on a hernia - the writing is quite faint). Then there are copies of 3 envelopes that had been marked and returned as either 'Gone Away' or Not Known at this address'. These were sent to the addresses they'd held from 20 years earlier! Unsurprising.

I can only conclude from this that the family had ceased making enquiries about him, if they had then surely more up to date addresses would have been held on his medical record.  I'm puzzled and troubled by this as it isn't a very nice thought to contemplate that the family had abandoned him.

There was no reference amongst the papers of burial/cremation details.

Whilst I'm pleased to have discovered as much as I have (and thanks once again to you for setting me on the right path) I'm saddened to think of this man's lonely plight.

Cheers, Spence   

4
The Common Room / Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« on: Monday 03 July 17 16:22 BST (UK)  »
Hi

Sorry yes, I see now it was a civil registration.

Interesting what you say about the possibility of the family being kept in the dark about his confinement. As it happens my grandad (Albert's brother) spent the majority of his working life as a mental orderly in Asylums first on the IOW and then his adopted city of Sheffield which adds a touch more pathos to all this.

As you say those times were much less enlightened than ours vis a vis mental health. Depending on how revealing the papers prove to be, I may provide an update on this thread.

Once again many thanks for your interest and assistance.

5
The Common Room / Re: No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« on: Monday 03 July 17 13:43 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Sinann on Sunday 02 July 17 22:25 BST (UK)
There is a death of an Albert Chaplin in 1958 age 70, British Army, in Grangegorman mental hospital address Ashtown.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1959/04365/4132217.pdf

Maybe he didn't die when you thought...poor man if he was there all that time.

http://www.grangegorman.ie/Archive.html

Hi Sinann (hope I have your name right)

!!!???!?!! Well, I'm absolutely shocked to discover this.

Firstly let me thank you for taking time and trouble in replying and sending me this bombshell!

I'd been on the Civil Records part of the website this came from but wouldn't have thought to check on the church records tab, I suppose as Albert wasn't local I assumed somehow that his family (my grandfather in fact) would have arranged for his body to have been returned to England. As it was none of this could apply as he was still alive!


Not only was it a false assumption on my part (assumption is a cardinal sin I know in Fam History research!) but also the online army records also incorrectly recorded that he had died. I suppose there is still a remote chance that the church record refers to someone different but everything does point to it being the same person.

Thanks to your digging I am now able to satisfy the final requirement of the Freedom of Information Act that should enable the authorities to release the asylum/hospital records.

For the last two years I've sat with the 'knowledge' that Albert had died in 1912 following his suicide attempt but as you say, the poor man was in hospital for almost 50 years! On the last page of his online army record a scrawled pencil note says 'Temporarily insane'!

If indeed it does transpire that he lived all these years I'll probably never find out why he languished there so long. I have no memory of my grandad ever mentioning anything of this sort although I doubt as a child anything would have been said in front of me but then my father never mentioned it either and I'm sure he would have done - perhaps he didn't know himself. I'm really hoping that the released papers will unlock some of these 'secrets'.

Once again many thanks to you for unearthing all this

Regards Spence Chaplin
 

6
The Common Room / No Death Registration on GRO or the Irish equivalent in 1912
« on: Sunday 02 July 17 22:07 BST (UK)  »
Hi, I hope someone can advise me on this.

Briefly. I've traced my great uncle Albert Edward Chaplin bn 10 Mar 1888 Redhill through to his time with the Royal Engineers (he enlisted in Aldershot 27/9/1902) through to his discharge 14/4/1912. His online army records state that he attempted suicide 19th Jan 1912 at Ashtown Lodge, Castleknock on 19th Jan 1912.

He was subsequently discharged from the army on 14 Apr 1912 as unfit for further service. At some point between his suicide attempt and discharge he was committed to Richmond Lunatic Asylum in Dublin where he died (I think on 19th May the same year). I'm not sure if this was due to injuries resulting from the original attempt of if there was a second suicide attempt.

I have discovered that the asylum records for that period are still intact and can be sourced and I've been in contact with the National Archive of Ireland. However the Freedom of Information act requires me to satisfy several conditions, all of which I can do EXCEPT that of submitting his death certificate - but I just can't find one!

I've checked the GRO indexers, Ance*try, Family Search, FindMyP*st, Irish Genealogy etc but with no joy. This is deeply frustrating as I'm so near to being able to discover more about the circumstances of his commital, treatment and death plus details of where he was buried, yet unable to access them because I cannot obtain his death registration.
 
Can anyone suggest why this might be. He was English and had been serving in the British Army in Limerick/Cork - which I'm sure was part of Grt Britain at the time. Could it be that as he'd been discharged, the army no longer had responsibility for him but if that's so who would then be responsible for registering the death. My grandfather was his named next of kin but there is nothing in family papers to throw any light on this.

Can anyone help please?

Kind regards
Spence Chaplin

7
Lancashire / Re: Searching for 2 street names in 1870s Preston
« on: Sunday 23 April 17 20:35 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: hanes teulu on Sunday 23 April 17 19:31 BST (UK)
1928/9 map

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101101874

Click on and check for FYLDE Road and MOOR Lane in upper part of map and about mid point along.
Senior St is just east of Greenbank Goods station

Hi Thank you very much for this. I've located the two streets now though sadly both are now demolished.

I appreciate your help, Cheers Spence

8
Lancashire / Re: Searching for 2 street names in 1870s Preston
« on: Sunday 23 April 17 19:06 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: PaulineJ on Sunday 23 April 17 18:09 BST (UK)
In 1871 Richard St is at rg10 4209 pg 157-158

That may help

Ah Pauline brilliant. Many thanks.

I've now located the Richard St entry for 1881 though unfortunately the house I was searching for seems to be unoccupied at that time
.
Have to admit when I saw your reply I was flummoxed as to what those references meant or where they came from but pasting them into a search engine I got there in the end ha ha!

An*ces*try doesn't seem all that good when just searching for an address unless you know parish names and/or ecclesiastical district names/numbers.

Once again thank you very much, I appreciate your help
Cheers Spence

9
Lancashire / Searching for 2 street names in 1870s Preston
« on: Sunday 23 April 17 17:52 BST (UK)  »
Hi
Whilst researching my McClarnan family in Preston in the second half of the C19th I've come across a couple of addresses that I don't seem able to locate, either on current maps or an older one I have from abt 1900.

On the online parish council website for Preston marriages (Marriage date was 15th April 1876) I found an entry for Elizabeth McClaren (should be McClarnan) her address is given as Richard Street, her husband's (Thomas Pickup) address is Senior Street. I've also seen the banns entry from 6 wks earlier which confirms these addresses.

I know that they were living at 4(?) Richard St four years later in 1880 as that is the address given when their son Henry (DOB 20/8/74) enrolled at English Martyrs Roman Catholic School. Come the 1881 census they'd moved to 34 Lockhart Rd.

However, whilst trying to discover another family member (who was living at 4 Richard St in 1879) I tried to locate this address on the 1881 census to see who was there then but with no joy. Equally I've been unable to find Senior Street either. Looking on Google maps I can find a modern day Richard St at Kirkham, Preston but am unsure if this is the same s it seems to be further out of town. The marriage in 1876 incidentally took place at St John's.

Perhaps these two streets have long been demolished but I find it strange that they don't show up on older maps either.

Could anyone help please? 

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 6