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My reply was in response to the above reply - not your Ellen

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Probably no link, but fell over an Ellen Myers (56) buried Jan 1910 in Ince cemetery Wigan, an RC burial.....?

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I think she could be the 1901 entry married to Thomas Myers.  Sister in law also Ellen Myers was the same age but married Robert Bolton in 1903

Couple of months ago - and treating myself to a month's membership of Find My Past and its excellent newspaper archive - I found the larger story of my great grandmother Ellen Hart and why her death certificate had to be corrected by her husband John Thomas Birch (and so was so hard to find).
It was the 'Wigan Elopement Sequel', court case recounted in local newspaper. Basically, Ellen had gone off with a neighbour, collier John Myers who had then fraudulently reported her death as his wife (10 years younger) as a life insurance fraud from which he made a mere £12. Husband found out after her burial, not having seen her for 14 months.

Doesn't really clear up why she left husband and children - husband sounded a better bet than the 'other man' -  but clue may have been that she was already ill (husband could identify her from doctors description of longstanding large lump on eye). Still, that's more detail than has ever been passed down in the family...

PS: I'm finding the newspapers fascinating - and useful for finding out more about various other ancestors who for various reasons were covered by the press. Would recommend to anyone coming to a dead end with Census and parish records. More detail too.

Probably no link, but fell over an Ellen Myers (56) buried Jan 1910 in Ince cemetery Wigan, an RC burial.....?

Thanks, that's interesting. RC, area and date all sound right but she was about 45 at death (and apparently living as a 35 year old with the John Myers that she went off with).

Where did you find the record - or did you literally fall over her grave?
I was wandering around our local old graveyard trying to do a bit of photographing for the common genealogy good earlier in the year - and near-falling somewhat.

I wonder if her burial (wherever it was) is under Myers and not Birch?  It was 3 months after her death before the death registration was amended

I've checked  http://crem.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/  and nothing for 1910 or 1911 under either surname

Yes, I wondered that and looked on deceased online (which seems good for Lancashire burials) - nothing there.

I was curious as to whether she might have been buried in a family plot with John Myers (whenever he died post 1910) as she isn't with the Birch family that I can find. I wouldn't think at this date that people were doing the cremation/sprinkle ashes in a woodland sort of thing. I also wondered whether this might have been scandalous enough to get into a local paper - but probably not.

I think it's likely that John Myers may have been younger than she was (say, birth date in 1870s) because of her assumed age of 35 at death. But all speculation...

I've tracked down that there were 7 children of Ellen's son Frederick Birch 1894-x (married Hilda Bernice Carling). Some of these children were born in the 1920s and may have recently died (or be extremely elderly) as I can't see their death notices. My family isn't in touch with any of them or their descendants but I have wondered (long shot) whether any of these unknown cousins may have retained more family lore than my branch of the family via my slightly younger grandmother who would have been younger at the time her mother left and was in China for some years after she married at 19.  If any of them happened to turn up researching the Lancashire family history scene, that would be interesting..

I have been researching my G Grandfather, George Foster b1840 Congelton/Audlem, Cheshire, who after leaving the Royal Marine Light Infantry in 1881 appears on the 1891 census as a "Constable Central Marker(t)"   not sure whether it is marker or market.   He lived in Chingford at that time and I believe he  worked in Epping Forest and I know he was involved with horses (not sure if his job actually involved horses or whether he just rode there.    I suspected he was a Forest Ranger and these were quite often sworn in as Special Constables but I am told this is probably not so in his case.    I know there are meridian line markers in Epping Forest and wonder if there is some connection with this.   I also wonder if the job was to do with "marking" horses i.e. branding them I presume.

If anyone can help me with this I would be most grateful - Epping Forest Museum don't know the answer and I have been in touch, as advised by them with the City of London, Open Spaces, Essex, as far back as last October/November who said they would look it up but have heard nothing.

Sue

Hiya, I work at Epping Forest: one of our volunteers has been researching the history of the Forest Keepers. Previously they were fairly unsorted. This is what he's come up with for George Foster from EF records.

4 April 1881: Head Keeper - same role 1886.
Lived Hawkwood Farm, Chingford, Essex.
1889, still Head Keeper, but now living Oak Villa, High Beach, Essex (that's now in Loughton).
Note: 10 December 1890, dismissed (or that may just mean dismissed).
There's some correspondence London Metropolitan Archives  CLA/077/B/12/004 regarding 'Forest encroachments, some legal stuff about public houses advertising on Forest land.

There may well be some other stuff at London Metropolitan Archive including work diaries (which can be rather dull and are just identified by Beat - which is not always clear whose beat was whose'.

We had Forest Keepers on horses for some periods of time - not sure whether that early.
Central marker may be do with the cattle branding, an annual branding of cattle grazing on the Forest by commoners. The Forest Keepers acted as Reeves for this. Some of cattle brands on display at our visitor centre, The View, E4 7QH.

Meridian - probably nothing to do with your ancestor. The meridian passes through Epping Forest and is marked by an obelisk (two actually) on Pole Hill (which has a connection with Lawrence of Arabia, TE Lawrence) but again that's just a by the way.

Modern keepers are sworn in as special constables. Not sure when that came in - but have always enforced the by laws since 1878 Epping Forest Act confirmed management of Forest to City of London Corporation (who now run it as a registered charity).

If you see this, hope that's of interest - and do pay a visit to London Metropolitan Archives where the bulk of EF archives are held. Also, try searching for 'ehive epping forest' to browse our online (small, incomplete, ongoing) museum collection.

Quote from: CaroleW on Tuesday 09 October 18 20:06 BST (UK)

Prescot is the registration district - not necessarily the area in which the death took place

https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/prescot.html

The GRO index shows age 45 and the freebmd entry has been transcribed from that index.  However - GRO online has age 35

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Unfortunately - the death is not shown on LancashireBMD

I have accounted for the 2 likeliest St Helens entries - both are on the 1911 with their respective spouses.

There was a mental hospital in Rainhill - if Ellen was admitted (possibly after the birth of her last child) and died there - her death would be registered in the Prescot RD

Rainhill: That's a really interesting idea - value of local knowledge! - definitely possible answer to why Prescot death. I've ordered a death certificate for Ellen Birch hoping that might confirm addresses etc.
It feels very plausible as an explanation for why 'it' wasn't spoken about by grandmother. Not just a simple throwing off of Bolton roots but something more disruptive to the family and seen as a stigma at the time.
Sounds like people have found Rainhill records quite detailed - Merseyside Record Office, Liverpool, I gather.

Well, I think I have found my great great grandmother, Ellen Birch, nee Hart - but the Death Certificate is strange. But explains the different ages in transcripts.

It's at first glance for an Ellen 'Myers', died 10 November 1910, age '35', 'wife' of John Myers, widower, coal miner, of 79 Leach Lane, St Helens. Who was 'present at the death' at St Helen's Hospital.

BUT there's an official note (signed by Superintendent AF Mann, Registrar, 17 February 1911) which 'corrects' the information to 'Birch, otherwise Myers', 45 not 35, for John Myers read 'John Thomas Birch, core maker' and omit 'widower'. Info from Declarations made by John Thomas Birch (my great great grandfather) and Eli Roe (whoever he may have been).

So - genealogy experts - this looks as though my great great grandmother, mother of five children (youngest born 1904, family living in expected family unit in 1901), was living 'as wife' to coal miner, John. To whom she wasn't married, but the registrar at the time thought that she was.
Or is just some muddle over death certificates and paperwork.

NB: I've found one 1911 Census John Myers (then aged 41), coal miner, living with wife Alice and three children. There's another 1911 John Myers married to another Alice but he's a bricklayer. Not that I'm making any accusations.