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Messages - Ever Stealthy

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Thanks for re-cropping, Carol. I'm not sure what I did wrong when I resized the image to make it smaller. I've looked at websites to try to date her hat, but just got more confused. One I found would seem to back up your guess, however, as it said that bonnets got higher and away from the face in the 1860s.

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Hello, lovely people on Roots Chat. The attached photo is an unknown relative of my wife's, a member of the Smith family from Buxton, Derbyshire, England. An approximate date might help us to pin down the identity of the sitter. The image is on metal. Hope you can help. Many Thanks. Steve.


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England / Re: Help please! Ancestor who doesn't seem to have been born!
« on: Friday 14 August 20 18:18 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for finding the Anfield Cemy order book, Jon. Fascinating. 11/6 for a funeral was not much, even in 1876, about £60 now. It really was a simple funeral. The family story was that he'd been buried "in a paupers' grave", and this bears that out somewhat.

And thanks for all the Irish information, Maiden Stone. I tried irishgenealogy.ie, irland-anglican.org, and kerrylaburials.ie, but got no results from any of them. I'll check the ones you've sent and not give up. The Kerry FH people might be able to help. It would be nice to know his final resting place, even if there's no headstone.

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England / Re: Help please! Ancestor who doesn't seem to have been born!
« on: Thursday 13 August 20 22:59 BST (UK)  »
I can find no burial records in any Irish websites for Thomas Horton.  :(   

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England / Re: Help please! Ancestor who doesn't seem to have been born!
« on: Thursday 13 August 20 22:28 BST (UK)  »
It's possible Alfred was a baptist. He was buried in Anfield Cemetery, Liverpool. A very early post in the thread told us this is a non-conformist burial ground. His second wife came from a staunch Wesleyan family.

Regarding the Edinburgh marriage, 88 Candlemaker's Row, where Thomas was staying has featured in other enquiries on RootsChat. It was a lodging house. One post mentions that in 1901, there are 83 people living there. It is now Canmore, the National Record of the Historic Environment. There are pictures here

https://canmore.org.uk/site/117894/edinburgh-84-86-88-candlemaker-row-greyfriars-kirk-house

Maiden Stone, now I know Alfred's M.O. as it were, I intend to look for menageries in Newcastle in 1861. I think his circus career was short. The 1876 Buxton newspaper report about his illness that Lizzie posted, states that he had been a member of the Buxton Summer band for ten years. The Boorn's Gigantic Russian Circus reference is dated 1865. I found this in the Cardiff Times from 1866:

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3384311/3384315

It's an advert that gives a fantastic description of the bizarre acts in the circus, but states the Band leader is a Mr. Collins. Alfred Horton had moved on, presumably to Buxton, but also to Torquay. He married his first wife there on 4 Jan 1868. He certainly didn't let the grass grow under his feet. I need to dig in newspapers to see if I can find reference to him in Devon.
 
In 1871, Alfred was in Torquay, a widower, with his young daughter Ada Emily. His dead wife's family are living next door. 

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England / Re: Help please! Ancestor who doesn't seem to have been born!
« on: Thursday 13 August 20 08:39 BST (UK)  »
Of course, I forgot about Jane  :-\

As you said, despite all this fantastic information, we are no nearer pinning down Alfred's mother, whether it was Mary Adcock before she and Thomas were married, or a wife from a previous marriage that we haven't found.

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England / Re: Help please! Ancestor who doesn't seem to have been born!
« on: Thursday 13 August 20 00:21 BST (UK)  »
Maiden Stone: thanks for pointing out the Leicestershire Surname section. I'll have a look tomorrow. Yikes! Make that today!
 

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England / Re: Help please! Ancestor who doesn't seem to have been born!
« on: Thursday 13 August 20 00:15 BST (UK)  »
Hello everyone! Apologies for not commenting on all the amazing discoveries you have made today. Unfortunately that pesky thing called real life got in the way of more important stuff  ;)

Thanks so much for all this. What a can of worms I opened when I started this thread! The stuff you've found about Thomas is fantastic. It's been an object lesson in how to use different sources to get an answer. I will order birth certificate of son Thomas to check father and occupation.

The newspaper entry saying Eliza was his second daughter suggests that perhaps the Sarah Adcock baptised 3 Jan 1836 to Mary was Thomas'. Alfred b. 1842 could also be theirs out of wedlock. I suspect that Thomas and Mary were "together" for some time, then finally decided to marry while in Edinburgh, and the other children followed. Without a baptism for Alfred, we can only surmise.

Lizzie, I did have the Buxton newspaper report of Alfred's illness, thanks. He died of TB, although the family story has it that he left his second wife with two children, ran off to Liverpool with a younger woman, and drank himself to death! We have a photo of him with his face rubbed out - ouch! His wife remarried a man called Thomas Greenhalgh, and when Alfred's youngest daughter got married in 1899, she named him and not Alfred as her father on the registration. Had we not known the history, it would have caused some confusion and speculation in itself!

The musical gene was passed on: his grandson, also called Alfred, was lead trumpet in the Harry Roy swing band in the 20's and 30's - a big deal, I believe.




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Travelling People / Re: "Travellers with wild beasts" 1851 Census occupation
« on: Wednesday 12 August 20 16:17 BST (UK)  »
What a great site. Thanks. From what I've read so far it seems pretty certain they were with a menagerie.

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