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I know this is a bit early but there is a London baptism for a Harvey Rowell son of Harriet Rowell  5th Jan 1884, St John’s Wood St Mark Westminster

I’ve seen that thank you, I really don’t think it’s him although there’s no real indication either way!

Other than Harvey Jnr I think it’s the only entry for the birth of a Harvey Rowell though.

I’ve even considered Harvey isn’t even his given name which is why I’m at such a brick wall.

Quote from: tigtag on Saturday 09 February 19 21:29 GMT (UK)

Quote from: avm228 on Saturday 09 February 19 21:23 GMT (UK)

What’s known about Charles Rowell Burton?

To me nothing, I’ve only come across him on someone else’s ancestry tree, also with no further information.

I suspect that he’s not even a Rowell - Burton if I’m honest. The birth entry shows Charles R only and MMN as Burton when in fact it would be Morgan (although I am aware they weren’t shy of telling a lie or two back in the day).

Mother’s maiden name is also indexed as Burton on Harvey’s birth registration.

You’re right, it is so very possibly a brother and worth looking into further.

Someone else has also pointed me in the direction for a trial of a H Rowell, a private in the KOYLI (fits so far).

I signed up to get the info and he was sentenced on the 1/1/1917 to 56 days for doing awol and was held at Hedon.

‘My’ Harvey Snr married Margaret on 5/3/1917 so all the dates fit.

It’s ever so strange there is nothing else.

Thank you for your help this far 😊

Quote from: tigtag on Saturday 09 February 19 20:28 GMT (UK)

It is Harvey Snr (born c1892 father Albert (if the marriage certificate to Margaret Burton nee Morgan is to be beloved) that I am struggling to find anywhere other than the said marriage.

I know, but without the family context we are less able to help.  E.g. if we had known how things developed, I wouldn’t have tried to find the Rowell family in England in 1939.

Margaret Jr was back in the UK and getting herself into lots of trouble in 1939 but I, not sure when Harvey Jr cam back for good.

Margaret Snr was dead and her younger sister had married by that time. There is a possibility there could be a brother called Charles Rowell Burton but I can’t find him on the 1939 either.

It’s turning out to be one of ‘those’ families 🙄🙄

Was it the son b 1916 who married as Harvey Rowell in Leeds district in 1943?

Yes, this is correct.

On my grandmothers birth certificate Henry Thomas an Sarah Rosa Naomi Nicholson are both the informants. His occupation is Barman and they are both listed at 57 Somerscales Street. It has crossed my mind that they were maybe just boarders at the Parishes and THP’s Christian names are just coincidence. I think the fact that SRN has form for manipulating names (she marries in 1915 as Naomi Nicholson) just made me assume the same had happened here.

There is no will for THP as far as I can see.

Bastards orders maybe an outside chance but I have trawled FindMyPast for newspaper articles and can find nothing.

I don’t know which orphanage my grandmother went to and accessing records is a struggle because if the 100 year rule and we think she may have been admitted c1919/1920. There are only two local orphanages which have full records anyway, I have ruled out one but the other cannot be completely ruled out until 2020.

If the fathers name has been made up on the birth certificate Sarah hasn’t done this alone as the father was also the informant. I have no idea how she supported her children, if at all. Her 3 to Charles Nicholson were with her in 1911 but I believe went to his family soon after (their descents though 1909/1910) and there is no occupation for her on the census or no sign of Charles.

Thank you all again, I though the THP find was a breakthrough from my 2011 thread but it seems to have just opened a bigger can of worms.