RootsChat.Com

Hi Carol,
I'm working on sending you a reply to your query. It will be fairly long but I'll try to be as quick as I can. Actually started the reply last evening, got to the stage where it was getting late so decided to save the work and restart today. Trouble is I now cannot find the "saved" work, so must start again !!
Tradelin - aka mottman.

Hi Lyla.
How are you getting on with sorting out the info? Hope you are finding the time - I know it can take a long time, particularly if there are conflicting dates, etc.
To add to the store of info so far sent, I have a little more (did I hear a groan then?). Lucy Mott, nee Brown, reamarried to a GEORGE FOX after hubby George 1838 passed away in 1883. The marriage details are -  1884 December qtr 9c.229 Hemsworth.
In the 1891 census she is "Aged 55 years." address - High Field, Hemsworth. Her son Thomas Mott (1875) is with her "Aged 15 years. Pony driver in pit." Her daughter Emma (1872) is also there "Aged 20 years. Married." Her husband was Robert Humphrey/Humpherys (Humphrey in the marriage register, Humpherys in the census). Emma & Robert married in 1890 December qtr 9c.250 Hemsworth.
Her son Thomas (1875) married an Emma 1897 September qtr 9c.193 Hemsworth. He was father to Albert (1898) and Ernest (1901). In the 1901 census Thomas was "Aged 25 years. Coal hewer." Address - West Street, Hemsworth. His wife was "Aged 28 years."
I'm thinking that the cemetery in Hemsworth must be full of information about these Mott's, likewise Lidgate. Don't know where you live but one of them might be worth a visit? I'm not all that far from Lidgate area so maybe one day when I'm trying to think of something to do I might wander down that way !!
Take care,
Fred

No stopping me now, Lyla!!
That John Thomas 1887 - is actually 1886 Sept qtr 9c.652 Rotheram. 1891 census "Aged 5 years." Address - High Field, Hemsworth.
Fred

Hi Lyla,
Well here goes for page two - ley's hope it gets thru this time!
James ca 1769/1764/1749.
In your first message on Monday 6th you stated that James Mott 1764 wed Ann Coote in Kirtling in 1788. My database showed they wed 18 November 1770 -  small query on her surname. At the time ofmaking the entry I did wonder at the long gap before any children, and your 1788 makes more sense. Again I got the marriage info from another Mott researcher.
The extra children I gave you were baptised in Kirtling - names and dates are:-
David 12.5.1793; James 22.3.1795; John 22.1.1797; James 12.6.1803.
Based on the above I can discount 1749 as his birthyear. Following the date/age of James in 1839 aged 70 gave me 1769, which as you say fits better with the 1764 baptism, so we can agree on that. However I am rather surprised that I do not have on record the marriage of William 1738 to Catherine Sargent.
William 1738.
I have on file that William baptised 23 September 1738 Bottisham, son of Thomas & Sarah (NICHOLL), who you guessed might be the same person wed to Catherine Sargent.
I had followed my normal procedure for assuming birthyears, which is to deduct 21 years (age at marriage) from the year of marriage, which in this case gives me 1716 as assumed birthyear, but with a query on the possibility of the Thomas in 1706. This, if correct, takes your tree back to William 1672.
Samuel 1791.
Son of James 1764 & Ann (COOTE/COATS). Baptised 16 January 1791. Wed Elizabeth Pain 11 November 1815. Had issue:- (all Lidgate)
George born 31.5.1816. Baptised 05.6.1816. Buried 09.6.1816.
Harriot (sic) Baptised 16.8.1818. 1841 census "Agted 21 years. Single."
Rhoda Baptised 10.6.1821. 1841 census "Aged 20 years. Single."
Charlotte Baptised 06.6.1824. Buried 01.11.1853. 1841 census "Aged 15"
Thomas Baptised 28.9.1827. Buried 07.9.1828.
Maria ca 1829. No baptism found.Buried 21.7.1844 "Aged 15 years."
Ellen Baptised 15.4.1832. Wed John Moss 07.6.1854 (3b.790 Newmarket)
George ca 1838. No baptism found. Wed Lucy Brown 1860 Sept qtr
Had issue :-
Stephen 1861. Baptised 07.7.1861. 1881 census "Aged 19 years. Coal miner." Address - 28 Ashwood Road, Rawmarsh, Yorkshire.
1) Stephen wed (unknown) 1884 March qtr 9c.695 Rotheram & had issue:-
     John 1887 Not in GRO - 1901 census "Aged 14 yrs. Coal miner driver."
     George 1890 June qtr 9c.143 Hemsworth. 1901 census "Aged 11 years."
     Annie 1892 Not in GRO - 1901 census "Aged 9 yrs. Born Hemsworth."
     Alice 1894 June qtr 9c.161 Hemsworth 1901 census "Aged 6 yrs."
     Addrerss for family - Town Street, Hemsworth.
     1911 census Stephen "Aged 49 years. Coal miner. Widower." Address - 10 West Street, Hemsworth.
2) Elizabeth 1863. Baptised 07.7.1863. Died 1865 Sept qtr 3b.345 Newmarket
3) Elizabeth 1866. Baptised 05.8.1866.
4) Charlotte Ann 1868. No baptism found. 1881 census "Aged 12 years. Domestic servant."
5) Emma 1872 June qtr 3b.503 Chesterton. 1881 census "Aged 9 yrs."
6) Thomas 1875 Dec qtr 9c.585 Sheffield. 1881 census "Aged 5 yrs."
7) Lucy Ann 1880 March qtr 9c.582 Sheffield. Died 1881 June qtr June qtr 9c.358.
George 1838 died 1883 June qtr 9c.88 Hemsworth "Aged 44 yrs."

Well I think that is all so far. I think the reason for the 2nd page not going was that I had exceeded the limit of 5500 digits !! Hope that it reaches you this time.
Enjoy!
Fred

Thanks for all the update. Quite a lot for me to peruse, but as it getting a bit late I'm going to leave it till the morrow. I've had a busy day out in the garden today and yesterday, so I've promised myself all day tomorrow and Friday to be on the computer working on these Mott's (and the variations).
Will go thru what you've sent and will be in touch shortly.
Many thanks again,
Fred

Saturday 11th and I think I have completed my task. I spent most of Thursday and Friday going thru my database, checking census rtns and cross checking your info against mine and I hope you wil find something useful here. It is going to be a long message, so I might split it into divisions.
William 1789.
Based on what your mum noted from the Parish Records, this leaves the question - did William lie about his and his wifes' ages in the 1841 census, or was that William a completely different person? If I treat my William 1795 as being a different person to William 1789 then the whole family listed in the census does not belong on your tree. However, if you study the list of children in that census you will see that they all match exactly the list of issue you have for William 1789. Based on this it is fairly obvious that the two Williams are the same person, and the ages given were totally incorrect.
It is not unknown for incorrect ages/places of birth to be given in census rtns, as you may have found out? Sometimes it is the householder at fault, sometimes the transcriber. Take it all with a pinch of salt, that's my motto! See more examples below.
James 1835.
Son of William & Mary (EVERARD). I have only one 'James' in the database shown for Lidgate. You suggest that James possibly wed Ann Steadman from Kent. I do not have this info and cannot find a marriage for him in my marriage registers. Do you have any further info on this? I have found a marriage for an Ann Steadman in 1860 December qtr 3b.256 Newmarket, but there is no corresponding marriage under Mott. I also have a problem with tracing them in the census - you say James was in Lambeth in 1881, not found in 1891, and his wife was a widow in in Hendon in 1901. According to the version of the 1881 census from 'findmypast' there is no James to match (not that I could find, anyway) nor could I find Ann Mott in Hendon in 1901?
George ca 1853.
George's birth registration is 1854 March qtr 4a.349 Risbridge, possibly born December 1853? Strange he was living with his grandparents Sharp in both 1861 & 1871 censuses. He 'disappears' after that, not found in any census. No death found yet, tried the GRO, military records & emigration.
George's family were in Bury Lane in 1861 - his father Abraham's name was written Abram and transcribed as 'Brown' !! - and living in Wickhambrook Road in 1871, but minus Abraham. Looked to see if I could find Abraham elsewhere and came across one who almost fitted. In Calford there was an "Abraham, lodger, married, born Lidgate, shepherd, aged 28 years." This guy ticked all the right boxes except for his age - 28 not 45. Abraham reappears in Fulham in 1881 aged 53.
I concede that the Abraham in the Kelly's Middlesex 1860 "Marine Store Dealer" is a different person altogether, but I've no idea yet as to who he was (where from).
Abraham 1826.
You show his first born to be named Amelia Harriet - I have just Harriet. Can you enlighten me?
Elizabeth ca 1840.
Her birth registered 1839 December qtr 14.95 Newmarket. She wed 1866 March qtr 3b.639 Newmarket. Her future husband John Marsh was shown in the 1861 census to be living at the house of George Mott (1838), together with his mother Mary Marsh and siblings. George 1838 was a son of Samuel 1791 & Elizabeth Pain.
End of page one!! One more to come.