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Messages - maria_

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1
Tipperary / Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
« on: Tuesday 22 September 09 07:45 BST (UK)  »
Dear all, I have been given a picture of my Dad's (John Beresford Mathews) signet ring, and although a little blurry - you can see it's the same emblem - I do believe my Grandad Marcus Beresford was a member of the Masons, so my Mum remembers.

I would love to know more about this too!

Thanks
Maria

2
Tipperary / Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
« on: Friday 17 April 09 09:12 BST (UK)  »
and the last one to date....


My first thought on looking at George of Hanover in the first pic was that he's rather like Dad. Have another look at the pic of our Ria-discovered relative Chris Mathews though!

Here's another of 'Prinny'..
http://media.photobucket.com/image/george%20IV/mariaFitzherbert/George/George_IV_bust1.jpg

Here are the three brothers Francis James Mathew, Montague James Mathew and George Toby Skeffington Mathew - dandies and men-about-town in London, credited with the invention of the beaver hat, and other sartorial innovations such as recipes for boot-blacking - nephews of Lady Ellisha, and quite the antedote to their cousin the Apostle of Temperance, it seems...

http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/169475/A_Welch_Tandem_published_by_Hannah_Humphrey_in_1803

http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/169499/The_Three_Mr_Wigginss_published_by_Hannah_Humphrey_in_1803

To elaborate on yesterday a bit, as Francis, the eldest legitimate son and the second earl, was busy selling off most of the Welsh and Irish estates to fund his dandy lifestyle in London, Fr. Theobald Mathew (son of the natural James) was incurring massive debts to fund his temperance tours of the UK and USA, on the unkept promise that Lady Ellisha would leave him what was left. The Viscomte de Chabot, who inherited Thomastown against the family's wishes, became the French Ambassador to the UK..
http://www.thepeerage.com/p3540.htm

I wonder how he managed to keep his stable during the Famine of the 1840s...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hl=en&tab=wl

...and here's Lady Ellisha's will, which apparently mentions her 'son', William Fitzwilliam Mathew of the Bengal Lancers, somewhere...
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/DoLUserDownload/dommat1@yahoocouk/prob/11/1959/0/315.pdf




Back in Wales, here's Llandaff Court (rebuilt in the 18th C., and now used as the Cathedral School)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/372175682_e897705aab.jpg?v=0


and the remains of its predecessor, Llandaff Castle:
http://www.cavinguk.co.uk/holidays/Cardiff2006/normal/LlandaffCastle.jpg

and here, one of the Mathew tombs in Llandaff Cathedral:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Victoria_Park_Canton.jpg/180px-Victoria_Park_Canton.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton,_Cardiff&usg=__OMPC6bwe5yPqMYL4uT985iJLWX4=&h=148&w=180&sz=12&hl=en&start=8&um=1&tbnid=8IocB0-flUY3VM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmathew%2Bchapel%2Bllandaff%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfi refox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

 and this article gives info about the move from Llandaff/Radyr to the Thurles estate in Ireland in the 17th C.: - the Tipperary generations are then clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radyr

Going back a bit, here's some info about Meirchion (Latin: Marcianus...!!!), whose grandfather Cunedda came down from southern Scotland.
http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/bios/meircmmd.html

The Beresford connection looks like it could be with the Beresfords / de Pouys of Waterford in the 18th/early 19th C. Haven't found it yet though.

The big missing link is somewhere between 1790s and 1830s. Is it Rev Robert Mathew of Ballymena or his brother Captain William Fitzwilliam Mathew of Bengal? I've  come across Mathew as a surname down generations in India again and again, too.

Finally. ..whatever the link is from this to the ensuing generations, it seems to be a hell of a story.

3
Tipperary / Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
« on: Friday 17 April 09 09:10 BST (UK)  »
Another one from Dom....

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=seAKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=Montague+MATHEWS+,+(Lt.Gen.)&source=bl&ots=orkOnLalWT&sig=0QZboM78bZHwQYWS-UstNyhinIA&hl=en&ei=TS3nScfoNsHJ-Aaf-qjVBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#PPA54,M1
Check out page 54 for the family crest and motto. I wonder if the crest is the same as the one on the silver salver given to Marcus when he retired?

The solution to the added 's' may  be Thomas Mathew's marriage to  Mary Mathews of Dublin - their children were Francis (first earl) and Catherine-Ann-Maria, who married twice and died without issue. Though Mary dropped her 's' when she married Thomas...Hmmm...
Scroll down for Thomas Mathew:
http://www.thepeerage.com/p23201.htm#i232009

If the missing links can be found (the big family secret ? around Francis, his sister Ellisha/Elisabeth and the Welsh (Llandaff) and Irish (Thurles and Thomastown) estates and the birth of  a 'natural' son in Paris c. 1765 and/or George IV's possible hidden son/s), it seems we could be in some way connected to a line of Welsh princes that is traceable back to the 4th century.

http://martinrealm.org/genealogy/mathew.htm

See pages 332-333 of this for genealogy of the Tipperary branch:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qYFuFfd2kakC&pg=PA105&lpg=PA105&dq=Catherine+Mathew+Philip+Roe&source=bl&ots=0a5efVxfE-&sig=4CklLF-MvMjSklazlmcnCu4LeqQ&hl=en&ei=ZzbnSbywKZm7_AaezejPAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA333,M1

 ;D

4
Tipperary / Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
« on: Friday 17 April 09 09:09 BST (UK)  »
I've spent a few breathless hours exploring this on Google from the rootschat Llandaff information onwards. Much more to say on this forthwith from different people, I'm sure. Here are a few more images.
Can you see a family resemblance? ;-)

(scroll down to Thomas Mathews; sea-leg genes, Chow?)

http://www.skreb.co.uk/portrait.php#

Here? !!

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://72.5.117.144/fif%3Dfpx/sc1/SC124685.fpx%26obj%3Diip,1.0%26wid%3D400%26cvt%3Djpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp%3Frecview%3Dtrue%26id%3D32196&usg=__cpEnTiddXYEEHT15RsZ5kMRMUKI=&h=476&w=400&sz=28&hl=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=-zPcMAIBLVkJWM:&tbnh=129&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomas%2Bmathews%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26chan nel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1


How about here? This is Captain Thomas Mathews (scroll down) who fought two duels with the playwright Sheridan over Elizabeth Linley.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1159/616294548_e03d4f54fb_b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bathdailyphoto.wordpress.com/2007/06/25/070625bath-elizabeth-ann-linley-at-abbey-st-pierrepont-st-and-the-royal-crescent/&usg=__ta6AcFkEQQUntF11U-fY5mo-0vQ=&h=768&w=1024&sz=600&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=tbg0cd 6WrSHzfM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DLINLEY,%2BElizabeth%2B(later%2BMrs.%2BSheridan)%2B(1754%2B1792)%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

(she also sat for Gainsborough:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Mythosidhe/Art/Gainsborough/ElizabethLinley.jpg



This is the statue in Cork of Fr. Mathews, the 'Apostle of Temperance', whose father James (a 'natural' Mathews) was seemingly left out of Lady Ellisha's will, ending the line of the Llandaff Mathews, and passing the estates to the non-Irish/non-Catholic sides of the family...The missing link around the illegitimacy mystery must be somewhere!
 I like the yoyo.

http://inphotos.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fr-mathews-yoyo.jpg

and again...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/2296670522_3288ae00af.jpg?v=0

And here he is in Dublin

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fotothing.com/photos/296/296ffe80c0d0541064e00a6bc3125d9c_a63.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fotothing.com/cleftref/photo/296ffe80c0d0541064e00a6bc3125d9c/&usg=__fKDKMnWgV2RxmvjER8tucbKYdeM=&h=1733&w=1300&sz=209&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=NyoT6udfQJ6CEM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTHE%2BAPOSTLE%2BOF%2BTEMPERANCE%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla :en-GB:official%26sa%3DG

And again
http://www.philaprintshop.com/images/revmathew.jpg

There are a few books available about him on Amazon.

This is Thomastown Castle,  where he was born

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Thomastown_Castle,_the_seat_of_the_Earl_of_Landaff,_Co._of_Tipperary.jpg/180px-Thomastown_Castle,_the_seat_of_the_Earl_of_Landaff,_Co._of_Tipperary.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Llandaff&usg=__HQi3SdgiQbGnbfHq9o-k2kGgJKQ=&h=126&w=18 0&sz=8&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=6BMzsaagd58LnM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomastown%2Bcastle%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

and the 'ivy-clad ruin' as it is now...

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/421299824_43d17ce6b6.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/73495229%40N00/421299824&usg=__Yebm-soPu4py8YZeh2uafKYiK_U=&h=284&w=500&sz=56&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=jX7Jq46zl45c-M:&tbnh=74&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthomastown%2Bcastle%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

There are also curious potential Anglo/Irish links with Charles Mathews and his son Charles James Mathews that I have books about (two Victorian actors; Charles' father James was a religious (Wesleyan) printer/bookseller at 18, Strand in London). It seems physically there could be a link here too -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mathews

http://www.garrickclub.co.uk/images/library/G0477.jpg

Another possible part of the tree, though I don't know how closely the branch grew to ours. There seems to be a  Georgian move to America from other seafaring/military Mathews'.

And, while it's popped into my head, there's a pub by the water in Penzance I stumbled across last year with more (sea-trading) Mathews history.

5
Tipperary / Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
« on: Friday 17 April 09 09:07 BST (UK)  »
Morning! Sorry for delay in replying - was absolutely overwhelmed by both replies, and shared with my brothers, mum and stepfather (who started the curiosity in the first place).  My brother Dominic has spent some time since trying to find links, and I have included what he has come across at the bottom of this posting - let me know whether it makes sense please!  Please note I can't work out how to reply to personal messages or even send them, (not sure if my profile settings are correct) so am putting all the information on here!!

Wyseass (sorry, I don't know what else to call you!) - thank you for your kind words.  I remember going to see my Grandad in Greystones when I was little (not as well as I would like though), and have very vivid memories of some of the local places around that area.

I would love to see the family tree - we did live in Brazil for a couple of years in the 1970s, following that a short spell in Iran (just before the Shah was deposed), and then back to England.  Dad lived in Menorca for the last 8 years of his life on a boat, sailing was in his heart.

Here's some information you may already have, but anyway...

John Beresford Mathews b 11/11/40 - son of Marcus Beresford and Doris Woodhall (married 12/12/39
married Eileen Walke (don't know exact date but was in 1962)
daughter: Maria Doris Mathews b 15/8/62
her sons: Marcus Jon Cooke b 2/9/88 and Calum Conroy b 26/04/98
son: Charles Beresford Mathews b 10/11/63
his children: Christopher Mathews b 27/5/90, Laura Sophie Mathews b 21/6/92
son: Dominic Beresford Mathews 29/12/66 - no children
then John married Shirley Wright and they adopted a daughter in Brazil, Joanna Siobhan Mathews - no children (but getting married in 2 weeks :)


Chris
What a star you are!! Thanks so much for the picture. Apparently my Dad did have a copy of this and my brother and him had discussed it in March.

My Mum has done alot of genealogy on my grandmother Doris,  but was unable to get any information earlier than 1911 census on my grandfather - and you gave me the faces and filled in the gaps with the names and nicknames - I really appreciate it.  Dad reckoned I looked like Nancye, not sure but he had the look of her and his Dad!

My Mum also said she remembered Brian Mackenzie! 

I would love to see details of the tree and fill in any gaps that I can.  I wonder if you can tell me if the crest is the same as the one on my brother's link - anyway good to meet, and I am now intrigued as to what else I find out about any other relatives I may have that I don't know about - should be some more out there!!


Am including the emails from Dominic in another post, as it won't all fit in one

That's it folks - let me know what you know :))

Thanks very much indeed, this has helped both me and my brother at a very difficult time.

Maria

6
Tipperary / Re: Lady Ellisha Mathew
« on: Wednesday 15 April 09 16:54 BST (UK)  »
Dear all, am very new at this, but i think that i am also related to wyseass and cmathews.

my dad, john beresford mathews (who died last week, hence the prompt to search) was the son of marcus beresford who was the son of marcus beresford who was married to annie and their children: adelaide elizabeth, annie jane, william f a, alfred henry, helen kathleen, reginald russell and mary ... (all from census 1911 at 115 grafton street dublin.

i am delighted to already find that my great great grandfather was frederick albert and his father was rev. robert mathews and i think i have some new relations.  my dad would have been so chuffed, i only wish i had tried this out earlier. 

please let me know what information you may have i can share with my brothers and sisters,  especially any old photos too.

thanks in advance for your help

maria

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