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Messages - dukewm

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10
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Tuesday 18 July 23 22:22 BST (UK)  »
Part 2 of 3

As to the original 1734 lease, we refer to as "Stafford's Lease,
the copy I got from Stafford Poole reads as follows;

Dated 30th March 1734 - from William Conolly to Stafford Downing of Dreenan
            Rent and fees 25 Pnds 12 shillings 6 pence, containing
            246 acres 0 roods 7 perches of arable and pasture &
            189 acres 0 roods 30 perches of Bog
            Rent fine: 10 pnds 2 shillings 6 pence
            Lives: Stafford Downing, Bernard Mulholland, and Bryan McCann

Dated 6th October 1782 - from Thomas Conolly to John Downing of Dreenan
1st Renewal      Life Dead: Stafford Downing
            Lives Inserted: James Nesbitt Downing Nesbitt, son of
            Revd. Alexander Clotworthy Downing
                                Lives now being: Bryan McCann, James Nesbitt Downing Nesbitt, and William
                                Downing

Dated 1st November 1787 - from same to John Downing of Dreenan
2nd Renewal      Life Dead: James Nesbitt Downing Nesbitt
                                Life Inserted: Arthur Dawson, son of Arthur Dawson of
            Castledawson
            Lives now being: Bryan McCann, William Downing, and
            Arthur Dawson

Dated 3rd May 1789 - from same to John Downing of Dreenan
3rd Renewal      Life Dead: Bryan McCann
            Life Inserted: (blank in the original)
            Lives now being: William Downing, Arthur Dawson, and
            (life inserted)

Dated 20th October 1791 - from same to John Downing
4th Renewal      Life Dead: Bryan McCann
            Life Inserted: William Dawson, 2nd son of Arthur Dawson
            Lives now being: William Downing, Arthur Dawson, and
            William Dawson, aged 7 years

Dated 20th June 1796 - from same to same
5th Renewal      Life Dead: William Dawson
            Life Inserted: James Maddigan, son of Shane Maddigan of
            Dreenan
            Lives now being: William Downing, Arthur Dawson, and
            James Maddigan

Dated February 1798 - from same to James Downing, William Downing, George
6th Renewal      Downing, and Stafford Downing
            Life Dead: Arthur Dawson
            Life Inserted: Robert Forrester
            Lives now being: William Downing, James Maddigan, and
            Robert Forrester

Dated 1st June 1800 - from same to James Downing, George Downing, Stafford
7th Renewal      Downing, John Downing, and Sarah Downing
            Life Inserted: Ezekiel Downing, son of Dawson Downing
            Lives now being: James Maddigan, Robert Forrester, and
            Ezekiel Downing

Although the original lease could not be found in the FamilySearch database, it’s interesting that Stafford apparently sold the “lands of Upper Dreenan” in 1737, just 3 years after the original grant, to John Downing of Rowesgift, (see Deed Vol 100, img 21), an indication that Stafford was related to John.  At the 1st renewal in 1782, John Downing of Dreenan, likely John of Rowesgift, had replaced Stafford as the Lessee, BUT it’s noted that subsequent renewals in 1787, 1789, 1791, & 1796 all continue to name John of Dreenan, at least until 1791, when he is referred to simply as “John Downing”. 
We know John Downing of Rowesgift had died in 1785.
Also note that by Deed (Vol 194, img 60), dated 20 Dec 1756, Stafford is described as deceased.

11
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Tuesday 18 July 23 22:21 BST (UK)  »
Some random thoughts on recent replies:  PART 1 of 3

It's awesome that someone is still digging for answers on this thread after so many years.

In regards to the O'Neill queries and the researcher(s) trying to find the ancestors of Elizabeth Sharon Downing, I have not been able to positively identify where she may fit in the DOWNING tree, nor discover any PROVEN connection between the O'NEILL family and my DOWNING tree, other than two marriages, to wit:

Firstly, Esther DOWNING, daughter of Stafford Downing, the Lessee on the original 1734 Lease at Dreenan, married James O'Neill, at some time before 24 Sep 1812 (she is mentioned in an Indenture of that date, as being married).  We know she was baptized in 1789 at St. Lurach's Church of Ireland, Maghera, by Rev'd Alexander Clotworthy DOWNING, eldest son of John DOWNING of Rowesgift.  I assume James was about the same age as Esther, perhaps slightly older.

The rights to a portion of the 246 acres arable land and 189 acres of bog at Upper Dreenan, were signed over to John DOWNING of Dreeenan (and Rowesgift), by Stafford DOWNING, on 21 Mar 1737.
Ref: Deed Vol 100, img 21, Film# 7905904, p.26, Mem# 69437;
"A Memorial of an Assignment or Instrument in writing Endorsed on the Back of a Lease made between the Rt. Hon(oura)ble William Conolly of the City of Dublin Esqr. of the one part And Stafford Downing of Dreenan in the proportion of Vintners & County of Londonderry Gent of the other part w(hi)ch Assignment bears date the 21st day of March 1737 whereby the said Stafford Downing for the consideration therein Mentioned did Assign Transferr and make over unto John Downing of Rowesgift in the said County Esqr all his right Title and Interest of in and to the lands of upper Dreenan in the said Lease Mentioned with their & Every of their Appurten(an)ces  To have & to hold the Prem(is)es aforesaid unto the said John Downing his heirs & Assigns for and During the Continuance of the said Lease . . .

It should be noted that Stafford did NOT transfer his rights to the entire 435 acres in "Upper Dreenan" because he is party to another deed, dated 1747, wherein Stafford grants rights to Ambrose O'NEILL.
Ref: Deed Vol. 165 ; Image 454
NOTE: these Indentures, and many more can be seen in my eBook, Titled "Downing Deeds of Derry, 1708-1825", available on Amazon

The granting of rights at Upper Dreenan by Stafford to John DOWNING of Rowesgift, indicates a familial relationship between the two men and explains how several members of John's tree became "lives" in the "Stafford" lease.  Verifiable PROOF of their relationship remains elusive.

Secondly, Stafford Dinnen, son of Michael Dinnen and Elizabeth DOWNING, daughter of Stafford DOWNING (the original Lessee) and Rose Mulholland, also older sister of the aforementioned Esther DOWNING, baptized 1785 at St. Lurach's by Rev'd A. C. DOWNING, married Bridget O'NEILL.  Stafford Dinnen was born in 1812, and I assume Bridget was about the same age or slightly younger.  I do not know the name of her father. 


12
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Thursday 06 July 23 14:52 BST (UK)  »
Hello "M"/Michael/Mike,

I have some notes that call you "Mike", so I hope that's your preferred name.

Anyway, I was reviewing some of the old posts on RootsChat, including your thread titled, "The 'Stafford' O'Neills of Rocktown/Ballymacpeake",
and got "deep into the weeds" trying to piece it all together.  Perhaps when I have more time, I'll revisit your O'Neill branch(es), but I've been occupied with a big remodeling project at my house for a while now.

In any case, I'd like to comment on your latest post on my "All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry" thread, dated 28 Jun 2023 (REPLY #41).
Not sure whether any of this has been posted earlier, but nevertheless . . .

As to Elizabeth Downing, dau. of Stafford Downing of Dreenan, and his wife, Rose Mulholland, she did indeed marry Michael Dinnen before 24 Sep 1812.
An Indenture of that date, between Stafford Downing of Dreenan and John Downing of Dreenan, names Stafford's wife as Rose Mulholland and his four daughters as; "Elizabeth, married to Michael Dinnen; Mary, married to Robert Downing; Esther, married to James O'NEILL; and Elinor, listed as a spinster."
Elizabeth and Michael were actually the 3rd great grandparents of one of our research team members, Michelle Dynowski, who wrote a rather extensive book on her family history.
According to Michelle, Elizabeth and Michael had at least three known children, and probably an eldest son named John, b. c.1804, who went to America in the 1820's to try and convince his sister, Rosanna, to return to Ireland.
The other three children were; Rosanna, b. c.1808 (Michelle's 2nd great grandmother), who married John Delevan; Stafford Dinnen, b. c.1812, who married Bridget O'NEILL, b. c.1830, dau. of Bernard O'Neill, and a second unnamed daughter.
The marriage of Bridget to Stafford Dinnen was on 17 Dec 1872 at Lavey Parish RC Church just north of Gulladuff.  I don't have any other info on Bridget's father, Bernard O"NEILL.

Interestingly, Elizabeth's nephew, Thomas Downing, married 17 Jun 1865 at Lavey Parish, Mary O'NEILL, 3rd dau. of John O'Neill of Dreenan.  So, in this relatively narrow branch of the Stafford Downing line, there are three intermarriages to the O'Neill family.

On the marriage of James Downing to Bridget Henery (Henry), I can refer to another RootsChat topic titled, "Downings of Killyberry Downing", dated 1 Jul 2012, posted by James Hanley, who states that he is a great grandson
of James Downing of Killyberry, through his grandfather, Patrick Dawson Downing, 2nd son of James.  The date of their marriage was 13 Jan 1868.  The marriage certificate names James' father as 'John', and Bridget's father as Patrick Henry of Drumard.

On your Reply # 40:
I have no downline for Esther Downing and James O'Neill, but your theory seems to be well founded.  We know she was baptized in 1789, and married before 24 Sep 1812 (the date of the aforementioned Indenture).
It's certainly possible they named a son to honor her father, Stafford, and you have evidence that Stafford (the son) took over the family farm from a 'James O'Neill' in 1862.
Apparently, they had at least two other children, including a 'James' and an 'Ellen'.
It's also notable that Ballymacpeake-Lower borders Eden and Dreenan, so the younger generations didn't stray too far.
Ballymacpeake-Upper borders Dreenan, Drumard, and Rocktown.

On another note, in regards to the FULLERTON surname:
The only connection my Downings have to FULLERTON, are the first marriage of Dawson Downing, son of John Downing of Rowesgift, to Catherine Fullerton, dau. of George Fullerton of Ballintoy, County Antrim.
George was the elder brother of Alexander Fullerton, a prominent medical practitioner and rum trader in Jamaica, who purchased Ballintoy Castle as an investment in 1760 for 20,000 pounds.
Catherine married Dawson Downing on 3 Apr 1773 and had by him two sons, George Alexander, b. 1775, and David, b. 1777/8.  She died in 1785 and predeceased Alexander's Will by 10 years.
George was killed in the American War for Independence in 1780, and Alexander took steps to secure the futures of his two great nephews, provided they assume his surname.
George Alexander and David assumed the Fullerton surname by Royal Licence, dated 1 Dec 1794, and became George Alexander Downing Fullerton, and David Fullerton Fullerton, respectfully.
George Alexander had three sons, but they are all presumed to have emigrated to Great Britain.
I have no further issue by David, so I have no known descendants of that FULLERTON branch who may have stayed in County Derry.

Hope that's not too confusing and there's something in here of assistance.  Slainte !
Rick Turner


13
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: All Things DOWNING/DOWNEY in County Derry
« on: Saturday 03 December 22 16:57 GMT (UK)  »
Hello again, good to hear from you.  These dates are a bit later than the branches of my tree, BUT, the families are definitely related, so give me a little time to look into it and I’ll report back anything I find.
Interestingly, my 4th great grandfather was yet another William Downing who disappeared without a trace circa 1803.  His father was misrepresented in our Downing family history and remains unknown.  His wife remarried and his two young sons resurfaced in Coagh, County Tyrone by 1827(?) per Slater’s Directory.  The eldest son, also William, was listed as a Linen Manufacturer.  His purported uncle, Dawson Downing, was a prominent flax grower near Bellaghy, County Derry.
At some earlier point, as I recall, at least one Neill (or O’Neill married into the Stafford Downing branch.
I have at least one other “William” Downing of Dreenan who has not been connected to my tree (yet). 
Stay tuned and thanks for your contributions.

14
By all means, post any info you may have.  I’m actually trying to find whoever may have a family picture that identifies people in the photo of the Buck Hill Inn, taken in 1901.
Turns out, a high school classmate I know very well is a great grandson of Howard M. Jenkins, who founded the Inn at Buck Hill Falls.

15
Hello Dee,

That’s a good question.
I don’t see any link to initiate a PM, although I know I’ve done it before.

All I can think of is to post my email address in this thread, but I think that is discouraged.

I’ll have to investigate further and get back to you.

16
Hi Dee,

I meant to say you could PM me if you wish to keep GEDmatch No. confidential.

17
Hi Dee,

Well, those matched segments look pretty convincing to me.
Would you mind sending me the GEDmatch Kit No. of at least the cousin who matches the 7 segments, and his/her name ?

Do you and all those cousins reside in County Tipperary ?

Thanks for checking,
Rick

18
Hello Dee,

Always great to hear from another cousin.
My GEDmatch DNA Kit No. is ZK6098473 for your comparison.

Rob and I share 53 fully identical SNPs across 6 segments, which I hear is pretty significant for 11th cousins.  I'm sure he won't mind sharing his Kit No. with you, but I'll leave that up tp him.
If you find that my DNA matches yours to some degree, please let me know.

By the way, I've been to the area where Catherine was murdered and almost certainly pinpointed the location where she likely forded the River Blackwater, just upstream from St. Mary's Abbey.
The "old pepper's orchard" was directly behind the abbey.  She was my 10th great grandmother.

respectfully,
Rick

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