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Messages - Elwyn Soutter

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19
Down / Re: Finlay/Edgar of Bangor, Down - The clue was in the children's names
« on: Tuesday 05 March 24 05:36 GMT (UK)  »
It’s long been a common custom for Presbyterians in particular to use a surname as a middle name. It can sometimes be the mother’s maiden name but often it’s the name of someone the family respects. Perhaps the local Minister or a teacher. Perhaps a relative.

The practice is common in Scotland and was brought to Ireland by Presbyterian Scots who settled here mainly in the 1600s. So it’s mainly Presbyterians in Ireland that follow this tradition though you do sometimes see other denominations doing it too.

20
Derry (Londonderry) / Re: Birth records
« on: Saturday 24 February 24 18:47 GMT (UK)  »
Yes births within the past 100 years are not accessible on-line. They are open to the public but with a couple of exceptions, you can't search them on-line. The exceptions are if you go to either GRONI or PRONI in Belfast in person. If that's not practical, then you can ring GRONI and pay them to search for you. There's a search fee for every 5 years, plus the cost of the certificate if one is found. You pay over the phone, by credit card. Can't be done by post or e-mail as you need to be on the phone to type in your credit card number.


21
Sligo / Re: Sligo Asylum
« on: Thursday 22 February 24 02:28 GMT (UK)  »
You could contact Sligo Council's Archivist to see if they know where the records are.

https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/County_Sligo_Archives_and_Libraries

Note that in some jurisdictions there is often a 100 years closure on this sort of information for privacy reasons. So not sure if records post 1924 will be open to the public.

22
Antrim / Re: Tithe Parish records
« on: Tuesday 20 February 24 12:12 GMT (UK)  »
Don’t assume that the word deed only means title to property. It has a much wider meaning. The Registry of Deeds contains a variety of types of documents. All generically referred to as deeds. There are sales, assignments, mortgages, marriage settlements, wills, bills of discovery but the most common are leases. There are hundreds of thousands of leases, often for tenant farmers. It may be that the McCollum estate has no records but if any of their deeds were registered (it wasn’t compulsory and there was a fee) then a copy could still exist. Strictly speaking they are called memorials and are transcripts of the original documents, occasionally abbreviated here and there.

In the early years the main leases tend to be for major transactions but as the years go by you see smaller parcels of land recorded.

Ian Montgomery (a member of PRONI’s staff) has also compiled a list of 17th century leases for the Antrim Estate (D2977 collection). So that pre-dates the Registry of Deeds. There’s 3 references to John McCollum of Cloghcorr in 1678 and in 1681. No Taylors, so they would be sub-tenants as you say.

23
Antrim / Re: Tithe Parish records
« on: Monday 19 February 24 16:48 GMT (UK)  »
If the Taylor in Aird was a farmer then there may be records in the Registry of Deeds. Bear in mind that there were often numerous transactions. Sub-letting bits of land, renewals, and so on. So several deeds for the same family may be in the records over a span of years.

Ancestors who were labourers or weavers are unlikely to be in any deeds though. And indeed probably not in any records at all in the 1600s and early 1700s. Their lives would mostly be lived below officialdom’s radar.

24
Antrim / Re: Tithe Parish records
« on: Monday 19 February 24 02:59 GMT (UK)  »
The Registry of Deeds can be searched by either surname or townland.  With a common surname like Taylor the surname index is a bit of a struggle and my advice is to focus on townland

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/185720?availability=Family%20History%20Library

The way the records are held takes a little getting used to. But basically you need to search in Antrim, in Lower Glenarm Barony, Tickmacrevan parish and townland. That’s the way the records were kept. (Early records didn’t bother with the barony)

I’d search in the townland index for any Taylors in Ballyvaddy.  The indexes are in batches of years, so quite a few searches depending in how many years you want to search. If you find a Taylor In Ballyvaddy you then need to note the deed number and then look the actual deed up in the main records.  If you get the hang of it first time round you will win a prize (in my opinion). If you do find a Taylor in Ballyvaddy, give me the details and I’ll try and find the actual deed for you.

I think you live in Oz. Think about all this in terms of Oz records (about which I actually know nothing). If your ancestors owned a station for many years there would probably be some paper records. But if your ancestors were farmhands who worked here and there for a year or so before moving on, there probably wouldn’t be any records now for their stay on those stations. Would that be broadly right? Well it’d be the same in Ireland. Labourers would be on “at will” leases where either side could give notice at any time (and where there was rarely a written contract). Though it carried the risk of eviction without notice, it generally suited labourers as they could move to another townland to take advantage of unexpected work opportunities there. No notice was required. Paper records rarely existed for labourers/weavers in Ireland in the 1700s or early 1800s.

When your ancestors arrived in Oz what were they then? If they were farmers/station owners then they might have been that in Ireland (if they had the capital to get a station in Oz). But if they were labourers or farm workers then they were probably that in Ireland too.  Does that help?

25
Antrim / Re: Tithe Parish records
« on: Monday 19 February 24 00:25 GMT (UK)  »
What do you know about the Ballyvaddy Taylors you are trying to research? Were they farmers? Or did they have some other occupation? I ask because if farmers, they are more likely to have stayed put for generations but if labourers, weavers or other occupations (eg stonemasons) they will normally have moved around a lot to follow the available work.

Not only would they move for work  within Ireland but often across to Scotland (it's about 15 miles from Glenarm to Campbeltown) where many Irish folk worked in distilleries and coalmines, as well as elsewhere eg on farms in Ayrshire etc. Very hard to track folk like that. Often on the move.

26
Antrim / Re: Tithe Parish records
« on: Sunday 18 February 24 11:28 GMT (UK)  »
MacLysaght says of Taylor (Táilliúir): “This English occupational name (which is not used as a synonym of any Gaelic-Irish name) is well known in Ireland since the fourteenth century, and is now very numerous both in Ulster and in Dublin).

Brian S Turner’s book: “Family names in the Glens of Antrim” lists the name several times, from the Hearth money rolls (1669) there’s a James McTaylor in Drumkitt; In Tickmacrevan Pat Taylor in Glenarm Town (3 hearths) and William & George Taller (Taylor) in Mogley which he thinks may be Bay townland.  You perhaps have a source indicating it’s Ballyvaddy?

This parish was originally all Antrim estate land. You could search the Antrim Estates records in PRONI (D2977 collection) to see if any Taylors are listed as tenants in the late 1600s through to the 1800s. (Records will be in paper format, so personal visit is required). No Taylors in Ballyvaddy in the PRONI e-catalogue. If your family held land, you could try the Registry of Deeds which go back to about 1709. They are on-line on Familysearch.

27
Antrim / Re: Tithe Parish records
« on: Sunday 18 February 24 08:22 GMT (UK)  »
Search the e-catalogue under FIN/5/A/263 or use the words “Tickmacrevan tithe”. That takes you to a page where you click on the digital link to view the records. They sometimes take a while to download (due to their size) depending on your wifi strength.

This link gives you a summary of the same information for Tickmacrevan:

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/tickmacrevan-parish.php

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