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Messages - TadlowNewell

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10
Cornwall / Re: Emma Jane Nodder (1846-?) and husband William Ridge (1834-?)
« on: Monday 05 December 22 19:27 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks so much for picking this up, and for the 'Sanders' suggestion, which I had not thought of.
Having had a look at the Census page you point to, I don't think this is 'our' family. There is just too much inconsistency - e.g in birthplaces, occupation and such like.

I do have William Charles Nodder and Jane Bluett in my database. They are a Torpoint couple, and he is the son of Joseph and Prudence Nodder who ran the 'Mason's Arms' pub in Torpoint for many years. William Charles and Jane had (among other children) a son they named William Charles Nodder in 1863, but he died in infancy.

Thanks again for looking.

One postscript: I have found the attached 1861 mention of Emma Jane Nodder in the British Newspaper Archive. I love the description of he as being 'respectable-looking'! I don't have a sub to BNA and used up my 'free' entries long ago, so cannot see the full article. Could anyone oblige?


11
Cornwall / Emma Jane Nodder (1846-?) and husband William Ridge (1834-?)
« on: Wednesday 30 November 22 19:40 GMT (UK)  »
I know some folk on here are up for a challenge, and if I don't ask, no-one will respond! I suspect this query is a hard nut.

Emma Jane Nodder was born to William Nodder and Grace Stephens in Torpoint, Cornwall, Q2 1846 (per GRO). She appears in 1851 and 1861 Censuses with her parents etc in Torpoint.

On 23 Feb 1864 she marries William Sanders Ridge in St Mary's, Devonport. (image https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-QL98-ZL?cc=1804330&wc=M61D-NP6%3A147011001 She claims to be aged 20, but was actually just 17. Curiously, her father had died just a week earlier, and so was most likely buried just a day or two before the wedding. William claimed to be 25, but was actually 29.

I cannot find anything about Emma Jane after the marriage - no children, no Census entries, no death record, no remarriage. She just vanishes. I surmise she was most likely pregnant at the time of marriage, given her age, but can find no record of any birth in 1864.

William Ridge was baptised 28 Dec 1834, (not 1835)  to Francis Ridge and Ann Sanders in Maker Church (Image https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-893K-GXCV?i=187&cat=1833620) His mother died when he was aged 3; In 1841 Census he was in St German's Union Workhouse with his father and brother. His father dies 1843. William appears in 1851 Census as farm labourer aged 15.

He then (2 Sep 1851) joins the Navy (No. 29759) giving a DoB 5 Nov 1835 (not 1834). There is a detailed list of his 20-year career available for download in the National Archives. He was in Crimea, in Opium War and in America/Caribbean. He spent a couple of years ashore in Devonport 1862-64 during which time he married Emma Jane. Then in 1868/69 he is imprisoned several times, and is eventually discharged from the Navy 'Undesirable' on 13 April 1870.
 
I cannot find anything at all about him after 1870. Just like his wife he vanishes from the record, at least as far as I can find.

So, can any clever Rootschatter find any record of these two after 1864/1870?

I don't know if they stayed together or not, nor whether they died or emigrated... No Ancestry Public Trees have any information on them, and I have not found anything in UK Ancestry, GRO, Family Search (both 'records' and 'Catalog'). Maybe someone can find something in FindMyPast or MyHeritage or has an International sub for Ancestry... My guess is that they didn't produce any offspring otherwise they'd appear in other folk's researches.

Thanks for reading.








12
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Cause of death please from this 1865 London Death Record
« on: Tuesday 22 November 22 19:26 GMT (UK)  »
Many thanks. So prompt and as ever helpful. You guys are invaluable.

13
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Cause of death please from this 1865 London Death Record
« on: Tuesday 22 November 22 13:46 GMT (UK)  »
Dear Rootschatters. Please can you read the first word in the cause of death for this 8-month old infant. It has me stumped. It is from Greenwich, UK, 1865. Note the same word appears in the partial death record for the next entry.

Thanks


14
Devon / Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« on: Saturday 08 October 22 13:34 BST (UK)  »
I have recently made significant progress on this topic, so felt it would be helpful for future readers to summarise what I now know.

The breakthrough came when one Bruce Simons in France pointed me towards the following information about MJT in an unpublished book on the Treliving family written in 1995 by Lynne Browning. On page 426 (see attachment) we find a transcript of her marriage record telling us that she wed Thomas James Longhurst Manning at the Register Office in the District of Westminster 31 July 1863. He was Age 25, Bachelor, Gentleman and his father, Thomas Allen Manning, was also a Gentleman. She was aged 21, spinster, father Joseph Treliving, retired tradesman.

The fact her father is named as Joseph, and her age of 21 fits with a birth date of 1843, convinces me this really is 'our' MJT. Note that in the court case discussed above MJT explains she was actually aged only 19 at the time of her marriage, not 21.

On the same page of her book Lynne Browning writes “According to her brother Alfred (H43) writing in 1879 she had no children at that time. Family information informs that she died at Knowle House, Knowle Road, Brixton, London on 21st October 1880 but the GRO Index does not show her death under Mary Jane Manning in that quarter of 1881. “

I then found (on FreeBMD) that MJT had in fact remarried in Lambeth in Q1 1878. Her husband was Thomas William Trodd. Using her new surname I could then easily find her death/burial record at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CXCJ-TG2M

Name   Mary Jane Trodd
Sex   Female
Age   37
Residence Place   Brixton
Address   58 Knowle Road
Death or Burial Date   25 Oct 1880
Death or Burial Place   Lambeth, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Death or Burial Place (Original)   Lambeth, Surrey, England
Birth Year (Estimated)   1843
Event Type   Burial
Cemetery   South Metropolitan Cemetery

This record confirmed both the Knowle Road address quoted by Lynne Browning and is also perfectly consistent with the 21 Oct 1880 death date she gives.

I have checked GRO indexes and it seems that during the three years they were married they produced no children.

Thomas William Trodd can be found in the 1881 Census, held just a few months after MJTs death, as a lodger at 4 Chelsham Rd, Clapham, described as a Widower. A couple of years later, on 23 Aug 1883 he remarried in Stockwell, Lambeth, his new wife being a widow aged 28, named Jane Amelia Hugall. They can be found together in the 1891 and 1901 censuses. They produced no children, and Jane died Q3 1904. Thomas William, whose occupation was Stockbroker, lived on until 16 Nov 1931. His Probate tells us his career was very successful - he left £18,725 - but clearly he was far less successful at producing any heirs to leave his wealth to...

Last, I have failed to find out more about Thomas James Longhurst Manning.

That is as far as I'm going with this distant branch of my 'Nodder' family.

15
Devon / Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« on: Wednesday 14 September 22 12:23 BST (UK)  »
Dear Maddy,
Thanks for sending the press cutting. I need to check carefully, but the addresses mentioned are not familiar, and there are no other clues - such as a father's name - as to whether this really is 'my' MJT so the jury's still out. Maybe her fall from grace into prostitution might explain her later invisibility.

I have removed my email from my earlier post.

Thanks again

Klouman: Thanks for your work on the Sheerness MJT. I think she and her husband William come from another branch of the Treliving family. There were several in Torpoint/Devonport in the 19th Century.

16
Devon / Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« on: Tuesday 13 September 22 13:27 BST (UK)  »
Hi Maddys52

The Times article you found sounds interesting. Would you mind sending me a copy as I don't have a sub to BNA? Thanks for offering. My email is <removed>

This could be 'my' MJT as she is correct age, but like you, I am not sure (yet). Neither her mother or any sisters are named 'Emma' but she has two sister-in-laws named Emma (wives of Henry and of Frederick)



17
Devon / What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« on: Monday 12 September 22 19:52 BST (UK)  »
You have been so helpful to me in the past, I though I'd try another 'hard nut'.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find out what became of one 'Mary Jane Treliving' (MJT) after 1861.

She was born 19 Aug 1843 in Plymouth to Joseph Treliving and Jane, nee Nodder. Source: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-Q796-YK)
She appears in the 1851 Census at 5 Jansons Place, Paddington, London with her parents and six siblings.
She appears in the 1861 Census at 32 Belvedere Rd, Lambeth, London, aged 17, unmarried, with her parents and two siblings.
By 1871 her parents, aged 61 and 59, are living with their son Alfred and his family. No sign of MJT.

So, after 1861 she becomes invisible, at least to me! Maybe emigrated, died, or married... Can you find her?

There are quite a few MJTs appearing in later censuses, and GRO records. Most, I suspect, are red herrings.
  • There is at least one Mary Jane who marries INTO the Treliving family - her brother James Tucker Treliving marries Mary Jane Gunton.
  • There is an 1863 marriage of one MJT to Thomas James Longhurst Manning(e) at St Margarets Westminster (i.e. next to Westminster Abbey), (see https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/171037575/person/412343265005/facts) but no subsequent record of them. I also draw a blank about where Mr Manning(e) came from or went to after 1863.
  • There is a 1911 Census entry of a MJT born Sheerness, living Norwood, London.
  • There is a 1925 Probate of a Huntingdon MJT.
  • GRO reports a 1931 death of an 89-year-old MJT in Lambeth area )i.e. correct age and location). This 1931 death is accepted by most Ancestry Public Trees but none provide a source, and none provide any information covering the 70-year gap between 1961 and 1931.


So, can a clever Rootschatter find any record for an MJT after 1861 which positively links with 'my' MJT i.e. quotes a Plymouth birthplace, or parents Joseph and Jane, or a Lambeth residence...

Thanks for reading.


18
Devon Lookup Requests / Re: Why this odd 1807 Devonport Wesleyan Bapt for Mary Nodder?
« on: Thursday 25 August 22 13:34 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for suggestions. The fact that the chapel in Morice St was opened in 1807, the year Mary was baptised probably suggests the chapel elders etc had a lot on their plate, and precisely-kept registers probably were not priority#1 for a while. If I make any progress I'll post here again.

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