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Messages - lancaster.jim

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Lancashire / Re: Papist return of 1767 look up please
« on: Saturday 20 April 19 19:44 BST (UK)  »
**IF** the Richard Rigby, aged 83 and of Haighton, who was buried at St John the Baptist, Broughton, in April 1803, were the same person as the Richard aged 40, of Haighton in the 1767 Return of Papists, then this would support my concern about the transcription, 40 years being recorded rather than 46.

The original Returns are in the House of Lords Archives and many years ago I obtained photocopies of the Returns for the Parish of Bury.  I noticed there were some small discrepancies between the original and the CRS transcript, e.g. Helen for Ellen.

Thank you for reminding us of the possibility of two marriage ceremonies for those not of the Church of England.

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Lancashire / Re: Papist return of 1767 look up please
« on: Saturday 20 April 19 11:04 BST (UK)  »
Using the Lancashire On-Line Parish Clerk site (http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html ) and looking for Richard Rigby buried 1787+/-20 years showed -

Burial: 24 Apr 1803 St John the Baptist, Broughton, Lancashire, England
Richd. Rigby -
    Age: 83
    Abode: Haighton
    Register: Burials 1759 - 1803, Page 60, Entry 7
    Source: LDS Film 1470861

This suggests that he was born ca 1820.  This site also has the following that MIGHT be this family -

Burial: 9 Apr 1780 St John the Baptist, Broughton, Lancashire, England
Ellen Rigby - Wife of Richd. Rigby
    Abode: Haighton
    Register: Burials 1759 - 1803, Page 25, Entry 26
    Source: LDS Film 1470861

Marriage: 7 Nov 1774 St John the Baptist, Broughton, Lancashire, England
Nicholas Rigby - Husbandman, Haighton in this Chapelry within the Parish of Preston
Jennet Carter - (X), Spinster, Broughton in this Chapelry within the Parish of Preston
    Witness: Wm. Blacow; John Arkwright
    Banns Read: 23 Oct 1774, 2nd: 30 Oct 1774, 3rd: 6 Nov 1774
    Married by Banns by: Ran: Andrews, Vicar
    Register: Marriages 1754 - 1805, Page 27, Entry 109
    Source: LDS Film 1470861

Marriage: 23 Sep 1783 St John the Baptist, Broughton, Lancashire, England
Richard Rigby - Husbandman, Haighton in the Parish of Preston
Mary Forrest - (X), Broughton in the Parish of Preston
    Witness: Mary Dunderdale, (X); John Arkwright
    Banns Read: 7 Sep 1783, 2nd: 14 Sep 1783, 3rd: 21 Sep 1783
    Married by Banns by: George Charnley, Curate
    Register: Marriages 1754 - 1805, Page 43, Entry 171
    Source: LDS Film 1470861

Marriage: 1 May 1775 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
William Rigby - (X), Husbandman, Haighton of this Parish
Anne Gornall - Spinster, Fulwood in the Parish of Lancaster
    Witness: Henry Barns; Nicholas Rigby
    Married by Licence by: R. Andrews Curate of Broughton
    Notes: [Bride signed] Ann Rigby late Gornall
    Register: Marriages 1754 - 1778, Page 42, Entry 1075
    Source: LDS Film 1278740

Marriage: 28 Jul 1782 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
James Rigby - Husbandsman, Haighton in the Chapelry of Broughton in the parish of Preston
Elizabeth Ward - Spinster, Haighton in the Chapelry of Broughton in the parish of Preston
    Witness: Robert Townley; Henry Simpson
    Married by Licence by: Josh. Southward Curate
    Register: Marriages 1778 - 1785, Page 82, Entry 240
    Source: LDS Film 94013

Marriage: 26 Jul 1785 St Anne, Woodplumpton, Lancashire, England
Richard Rawsthorne - (X), Haighton in the Parish of Broughton
Elizabeth Rigby - Haighton in the Parish of Broughton
    Witness: John Crook; Thos. Cookson
    Married by: Matthew Worthington Curate
    Notes: [Neither Banns nor Licence specified]
    Register: Marriages 1784 - 1803, Page 4, Entry 10
    Source: LDS Film 1470949

Marriage: 15 May 1784 St John the Baptist, Broughton, Lancashire, England
Richard Mayor - Haighton in the Parish of Preston
Alice Rigby - (X), Haighton in the Parish of Preston
    Witness: Betty Rigby; John Arkwright
    Banns Read: 18 Apr 1784, 2nd: 25 Apr 1784, 3rd: 2 May 1784
    Married by Banns by: Geo: Charnley, Curate
    Notes: [Groom signed] Richd. Mayor
    Register: Marriages 1754 - 1805, Page 44, Entry 177
    Source: LDS Film 1470861

There is also this one from a nearby place -

Marriage: 10 Apr 1804 St Mary the Virgin, Goosnargh, Lancashire, England
George Rigby - (X), Goosnargh
Ellen Miller - (X), Goosnargh
    Witness: Richard Rigby, (X); Henry Grimbalston
    Married by Banns by: Joshua Southward Minister
    Notes: Banns published; dates not given; Brides status not given
    Register: Marriages 1784 - 1812, Entry 641
    Source: LDS Film 1470930

Hope these help.

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Lancashire / Re: Papist return of 1767 look up please
« on: Saturday 20 April 19 09:47 BST (UK)  »
> At least it gives me a possible dob for Richard.

There are no Catholic baptism registers from this period – it would have been dangerous to keep such, as Catholics (Papists) were treated with suspicion and at times were persecuted.

The nearest Catholic mission was quite close to Haighton, at Fernyhalgh.  Its surviving registers were transcribed and published by the Catholic Record Society (CRS) about 100 years ago BUT they only start in 1771

The 1767 Return of Papists published by the CRS was transcribed over 40 years ago, when computers were not available to most people.  Pencil and paper, and typewriters would have been used, so it would not have been easy to check the transcript.  With that in mind, I am suspicious of Richard's age – 40 years.  His wife is stated as 47 years, and his son, Nicholas, as 21 years.  If these ages are correct. Nicholas was born when Richard was 19 and his wife 26.  Yes, these are possible ages.  I wonder if Richard's age should have been 46, as 0 and 6 can be confused in some hands. Likewise, it is possible his wife's age MAY have been 41 as 1 and 7 may be confused.

The local Anglican church was probably St John the Baptist, Broughton.  Its parish registers start in  1653 and have been transcribed and published by the Lancashire Parish Register Society (LPRS).  These are probably too late for Richard's marriage.  As Broughton was in the ancient parish of Preston, Richard's marriage may have been celebrated there, but the LPRS does not seem to have transcribed these registers.  The situation is further complicated by Richard and his family having been resident in Haighton for only 3 months when the Return was made and there is no indication of where they lived prior to this.

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Lancashire / Re: Papist return of 1767 look up please
« on: Friday 19 April 19 22:31 BST (UK)  »
“Returns of Papists, 1767, Dioceses of England and Wales, except Chester” trans. E.S. Worrall, Catholic Record Society (Occasional Pub No. 2) (1989)  has -

p.144
180   Broughton   A List of the Papists in Haighton in the Chapelry of Broughton and Parish of Preston.

p.146
[Name         Age   Occupation    Residence]
Richard Rigby      40   Husbandman   3 months
his Wife      47
Nicholas      21
George      19
Richard      17
William       14
James      12
Elizabeth      9
Alice         4

There is no other information.  Hope it helps.

14
For Sale / Wanted / Events / St Marie RC Church, Bury
« on: Sunday 16 September 18 19:45 BST (UK)  »
The lantern tower of St Marie RC Church, Bury, is being restored with help from the Heritage Lottery Fund.

As part of this project, a small booklet describing the stained glass windows in the church has been produced.  The booklet has colour photos of all the stained glass windows in the church.

It costs £1 if bought from the church.  You would need to contact the Parish Office (christine.halliwell@dioceseofsalford.org.uk) for details of postage if you need it from afar.

15
Lancashire / Re: Public grave site
« on: Monday 20 August 18 11:55 BST (UK)  »
Have you looked at Genuki Lancashire?  This shows that there is a municipal cemetery in Ulverston that opened in 1879 (http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Ulverston/PrioryRdCemetery ).  There are also at least three church graveyards in the town.

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Lancashire / Re: Our Lady of Lourdes (Didsbury Lodge) childrens home 357 Wilmslow Rd Mcr
« on: Saturday 11 August 18 20:45 BST (UK)  »
The [Salford Diocesan] Catholic Rescue and Protection Society is now part of Caritas Diocese of Salford.  It will have recent records but old records were deposited with the now-defunct Salford Diocesan Archives.
Caritas Diocese of Salford has a website  www.caritassalford.org.uk and this has a contact link.  There is also an email address inof@caritassalford.org.uk

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Lancashire / Re: Marriage look up Wigan
« on: Wednesday 16 November 16 20:21 GMT (UK)  »
Garstonite has suggested a possible family in the 1901 Census and states -

> it is a possible you are looking for Mary McMahon b 1872/73 in Blackrod

There was a Catholic chapel in Blackrod between 1870 and 1874.  The registers for this chapel have been deposited in the Lancashire Archives in Preston. As far as I know there are no published transcripts or indexes.

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

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Lancashire / Re: Marriage look up Wigan
« on: Wednesday 16 November 16 19:44 GMT (UK)  »
You ask about the marriage of a Patrick Duffy and Mary McMahon in Wigan in 1893.

> What I want to find out is their parents names before I send for their marriage certificate I hope this information would be on parish marriage records.

The LancashireBMD site states for this marriage "Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended".  At this time, the law only allowed marriages in non-Anglican chapels (Non-Conformist in the widest sense) provided the Registrar attended for the civil aspects of the ceremony.  The names of the couple seem Irish so it is possible that this marriage took place in a Catholic chapel.  At this time there were four Catholic chapels in Wigan and several more in the Wigan and Leigh Registration District.

The LancashireOPC site is striving to improve its coverage of Catholic registers.  You will find an increasing number from the Diocese of Salford (the old Hundreds of Salford and Blackburn), a few from the Archdiocese of Liverpool (the old Hundreds of West Derby and Leyland) and none from the Diocese of Lancaster (Lancashire north of the Ribble).  St John is the only Catholic chapel in Wigan for which registers have been transcribed and these are only for an earlier period.

lizdb has said that the certificate will provide the details you seek and, sadly, this is probably the best and easiest way of getting those details.  The new GRO service provides a pdf version (copy) of the GRO register entry at a reduced cost for a limited period.

Hope this helps,

Jim Lancaster (Bury, Lancs.)

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