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thank you for this - I think Elizabeth was Maria's mother.  (her family is proving slightly easier to verify!)
kind regards, Alison

thank you for this information - yes the man in the census is Philip snr - the one I and other Keddie relatives think is my Philip's father. (Secella is Isabella)
 My Philip  moved to England  and was in Hertfordshire by 1834 when he married Maria Pym.  He remained in England, travelling around quite a bit as he was a railways plate -layer.  In the 1851 census he gives Glasgow as his birth place.  No luck at all finding a Philip K. born in Glasgow.  I have wondered, if he was illegitimate, whether he was shipped off to Glasgow to wider family or possibly an institution. 

Alison

Hi everyone,
some interesting avenues to explore thank you.

answers (as best I can) in no particular order
Hugh I can only find in 1841 census "out of county"  - a fairly cursory look suggests most likely birth is in Merionethshire.- not promising

you are right  the census only says Paisley, Scotland with no mention of Renfrewshire.  I have also wondered if a) Sam answered for both of them (not unknown at that time! and if he simply said Paisley and the census taker used his/her geographical knowledge to fill in the gap - maybe not correctly.

I've looked again at the original (unsure how to upload to this format)  the writing is very clear BUT there may be two hands.  Samuel has Paisley in the last column and then just above it in smaller and darker writing Scotland.  Sarah has first " ditto" and then a capital D in the same darker writing as Scotland above.  I would not be at all sure the Paisley and Scotland were different hands but do think ditto and D are, with D added later.

So, please what other Paisley could Sam have meant?

and sorry my mistake I did mean the 1787 Holywell record had the wrong parents' names.

I only know that Sam was alive in 51 and Sarah a widow in 61.  No children married between those years so no more "sightings" of either of them.  I haven't found a definite death record for him

thanks to you all
Alison

Hi Looby, 

yes, I did look at the original - you're quite right there are some very "interesting" transcriptions!

Someone told me about the 1787 Paisley record but the parents were different unfortunately.

thanks again for your help
Alison