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Hello Alan

Yes I agree that the Neville connection is a good one, but as I said before the problem lies with John junior being the wrong age.  We know he was baptised in Kirby in to parents John and Hannah - father described as "labourer of Kirby" so it's difficult to see how he could be born in 1824 and again in 1838 in Lawford.  The later census dates we have for him fit in to the 1824 birth.  I think we must conclude that the Southgate/Neville line is a red herring.  A shame as it seemed to open up a whole new area for speculation.

Many thanks

Chris

Hello

Following a superb answer from Bryant to an earlier posting we are trying our luck again with this family.

Bryant found the following on the 1871,

at Wignall Street, Lawford, Essex
John SOUTHGATE  head  66  ag lab  Langham, Essex
Hannah   "          wife    65              Ardleigh, Essex
Elizabeth NEVILLE boarder (unm) 71? (seventy something)  Ardleigh, Essex

Can anyone find them on any earlier census please?  An age of 71 fits in with an IGI entry for Elizabeth of 1800.

Many thanks

verona

Hello Bryant

Thank you very much.  You are quite right - we were trying to kill John off before his time!

The Neville connection seems a good chance - IGI shows both a Hannah and an Elizabeth born in Ardleigh at the right sort of time.  If they are the right folk then, unusually, it gives both parents' names.

We shall post a record office request for some more background.

Many thanks once again.

verona

Hello Tati

Frustrating isn't it?  Especially when we should be able to find him as we think we know the date of death.  Perhaps Mrs Cole just forgot to tell the enumerator about him or thought that someone else would report him.  Do you think he might be in thelocal workhouse or prison?

I've tried various first names - Patrick, Braddick etc but to no effect.

I've got a great grandfather who doesn't seem to have been found on census day in 1881 as well!  Most annoying of him.

Thanks for all the info.

Chris