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Messages - BonnieDownUnder

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919
Armed Forces / Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« on: Sunday 23 September 12 22:49 BST (UK)  »
Hi Ken, Thanks again your quick response.  I am not sure how I 'PM' my email address to you - will try and figure it out - and for the suggestion of listing info on the British Medal Forum, will do so later today.

The 1851 census at 61 Wells St., that you found shows his father George John Frederick Burghart and wife Margaret along with Henry's two older siblings.  F. Burghart is his grandfather, Frederick John George Burghart.  Have found from FJGB's naturalization papers, in 1830, that he was born in Alverdissen, Prussia which is now part of modern day Germany and arrived into England in 1806.   FJGB was one of the top Savile Row tailors of his time and became extremely wealthy however he lost the lot in the mid 1840's.

The Henry Burghart in the Kings German Legion entry in Waterloo - we don't know how he fits in.

All data I have shows that my ggf Henry was born in Middlesex, England - we think either at Wells Street or 5 Market Street where his elder sibling was born however as previously mentioned, haven't found a birth registration nor a baptismal record for him.  If his medical was undertaken at Athlone, I am presuming that the 1/25th foot was based there at the time?

You mentioned the 14th Foot became the West Yorkshire Regiment.  When Henry was at the Workhouse in Marylebone, (C1861) also there was a Thomas West.  It seems Thomas was also conscripted into the Army about the same time as Henry as he is with the 1/25th at Fort Rowner when the C1871 was taken. When Henry married in 1876 at Fulford, York, Thomas was one of the witnesses at his nuptials.  I don't know what happened to Mr West as he isn't on the C1881 at York at the New Infantry Barracks nor did he join the KOSB.  Have a thought that the army box may of been his?

Thanks again Ken and will try and sort how to do the PM ... Bonnie

920
Armed Forces / Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« on: Sunday 23 September 12 04:50 BST (UK)  »
Hello Jim,  I have just received an email from an expert who collects/sells military medals.  He told me that George Moss died in the 1990's, many of his medals were sold by a Pennsylvania medal dealer called John Laidacker who sadly has also passed on.  He has suggested, which I have done, put a listing on the 'medal tracker' site ... one never knows, I may get to see them some day.
Thanks Bonnie

921
Armed Forces / Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« on: Saturday 22 September 12 23:08 BST (UK)  »
Hello Ken
Re Henry Burghart:  It was such a lovely surprise to open my emails this morning and find your reply.  Thank you so much for a speedy answer, it is very much appreciated and with so much wonderful information.

Sorry Ken, but I have a heap more questions ...

Not knowing 'Army speak', I am having problems understanding his military records - (the man with the 'red pen' must of been someone of importance!!) so thanks for clarifying 'Boy' and 'Boy Drummer' roles, etc..  What role would a 'boy' do in the Army?  I am thinking along the lines of a 'glorified servant' to the upper ranks, am I on the right track?

I too thought that Henry was born on 18 Sep 1848 however I have trolled the GRO Birth's registry through that year (also 1849) and nothing remotely comes up.  There are conflicting ages shown for him on census records (no surprise here) from 1851-1901 however the 1911 record (when the family was living at 9 Blandford St. Ferryhill) Henry was very precise in showing his age as 62 years and 2 months, which makes his birth date in Feb of 1849.  Actually it was from this record I was then able to find his wife's (my ggm) birth registration.  Her maiden name was Cook but her birth was registered as Cooke.  Also, he was spot on with the ages for his 3 children.

Also I am mystified about him being in the 6th brigade.  Was that part of the 1st and 2nd Batt. of 14th Foot or 25th?

Would I be correct in saying that Henry would have been included in the regiment's movements, ie Curragh, Kinsale and Buttevant after their move to York in 1873?  I wonder why Henry didn't go off to India;  this is rather interesting as I heard a family tale that he served there.  Odd?  Also, would his regiment have been based at Lowther Street in York prior to their move to the New Barracks in Fulford in 1880?

Thanks also info about being awarded the MSM;  it was timely when he received this as he passed away on 06 Aug of that year, and I am amazed that you found that a GS Moss in New York had his medals back  at least, in 1995 - how the heck could one track down where they might be now?

Sorry to bombard you with so many questions, I really do appreciate all your help.
Thanks again and regards Bonnie
Have attached a photo of Henry ca 1894





922
Armed Forces / Re: Kings Own Scottish Borderers, 25th regiment foot
« on: Saturday 22 September 12 04:23 BST (UK)  »
Hello, I have just registered into this site so please bear with me as a first time user.  ???
I am amazed at the information regarding the KOSB, especially info so expertly given by KM1971 ... many thanks.

My ggf Henry Burghart bc 1848 d.1912 was one of the longest serving in the KOSB clocking up a staggering 43 years and 221 days service.  I have his enlistment and discharge papers from FindMyPast however I feel that there are page/s missing from his service record.

Henry (along with three younger siblings) were placed into a Workhouse in Marylebone after their father died and mother deserted the family and it was from here that he enlisted at Westminster into the 25th foot, 1st battalion, 18 Sept 1862.  I think his service number was 906 however this was changed to 2434 when they became the KOSB.  It shows Henry was 14 but was more like 13 and a half.  He was sent to Gosport and started life in the Army as a 'Drummer Boy'.  On his enlistment papers there was a question:  " Did you receive a Notice, and did you understand its meaning?"  His answer, Yes.  Does that mean he was conscripted into the Army?  Another question: " (words missing) ... what Bounty and Kit did you enlist?" Answer "a free Kit".  Not sure what this means.  Anyone have any clues?

His record shows he was Home Base 19 Sep 1862 to 11 Jan 1863, Malta 12 Jan 1863 to 27 Jun 1864, Canada 28 Jun 1864 - 20 Aug 1867 and Home Base 21 Aug 1867 to 27 Apr 1906.  He was awarded in 1900 the Canadian Service Medal and when he left the Army in 1906, the silver medal for Good Conduct and Service.  Unfortunately I don't know what happened to these medals; my grandfather had left home ten years prior to his father passing away, in 1912, so they may have been passed to his one son who was still residing in England at the time however it would seem that they have been lost down through the following generations.

I was under the impression that the 1/25th had a permanent base in Gosport but after reading KM1971 message of 15 Jul 2010 they sure moved around the countryside.

Henry was made a Corporal in 1872 and the following year moved to York.  On 7 Mar 1874 he became a Sergeant and in 16 May 1876 he was re-engaged at York and married 5 months later to a Martha Cook.  In May 1880 he was again promoted becoming a Quarter Master Sergeant.  On his marriage certificate, 1876 and birth certificate in of my Grandfather in 1880, it shows Henry as being in the 6th Brigade.  According to 'The martial annals of the city of York' by the Rev. Caine, the 1st and 2nd Batt. 25th Foot, 1st and 2nd Batt. 14th Foot (6th Brigade Depot) moved into the New Barracks at Fulford York in May 1880 and departed in July 1881 which matches Henry's army record. 

The family lived onsite at the Berwick-on-Tweed Barrack quarters until at least 1901 when they are listed on that census living in a flat in Berwick township.

Sorry for my long winded story but I am also interested to know what pay a 'Boy Drummer', if anything, he would have received and also as a Corporal, etc. etc.,

Lastly there is a mystery regarding Henry's supposedly army box that a distant cousin has.  On the outside on the front is printed 'Quarter Master', then underneath '2nd West York's Reg.'.  The story goes that Henry's wife Martha gave it to her sister prior to the family moving to Berwick in 1881 however I can't see how it could have been his box as I am under the impression (though could be totally wrong) that the 2nd West York's didn't come into being until later in 1881

Look forward to hearing in due course from those interested (and have readed this far), your replies and hopefully I will have worked out how to get back into this site to see same.
Many thanks Bonnie 










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