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Messages - littlesis 76

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28
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Tuesday 31 December 19 16:43 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: louisa maud on Tuesday 31 December 19 10:18 GMT (UK)
Yes AVM, he couldn't be living at 2 addresses, I am inclined to agree with you

Martina and Co are giving me sleepless nights, don't know about you Littlesis but something pops into my head and I am up for a couple of hours

Louisa Maud

This has been my Christmas break from work ....Martina bloomin Barwaw ,Burwan ,Morris Ross whatever she wants to call herself .She has had hours and hours of my time again and if they ever do invent a time machine I will be searching her out to tell her exactly what I think !
One day just one day we will find her and it better be good for all the bother she has caused  :D :D

29
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Tuesday 31 December 19 10:36 GMT (UK)  »
Quick refresh
Baby Martina Elizabeth was born 1892  mother Martina 1st found on 1891 census .If age is correct born 1869 at Fitzroy Square.
There were several adverts for dressing making placed by Martina Burwaw starting from 1890 in local.paper at Messina Avenue if my memory is correct

The electrol roll says Walter Jones then dwelling house (successive) ...not sure what that means then 46 Iverson Road and  52 Messina Avenue .There is one other on the page that  says successive too rest are just one address .

30
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Tuesday 31 December 19 09:57 GMT (UK)  »
I thought it could be another relation of hers a brother or even a husband.
I am know really sure how often the electrol rolls were done and have been trying to see on 91 census who is living at Iverson Road.
We know Martina was there in 1890 so whoever this Walter Jones is he must of been there with her

31
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Monday 30 December 19 23:42 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: louisa maud on Monday 30 December 19 23:39 GMT (UK)
1891 has George Jones and family living 54 Messina Ave

52 as we know Martina and family

On ER's does Walter have anyone else living there

Louisa Maud

No he is on his own but at the side it states 52 messina avenue and 146 Iverson Road,does this mean he owns both the houses ?

32
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Monday 30 December 19 22:37 GMT (UK)  »
I have just found a Walter Jones living at 52 Messin Avenue in 1890 on electrol rolls .It has to be someone we need to trace,Martina Burwaw place her 1st advert in 1890 at same address

33
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Monday 30 December 19 11:40 GMT (UK)  »
Looking at the Grandfathers the Fairweather one died 1936 ,but looking quickly I haven't researched the Shave one and it looks like his father was also Walter Shave but he was born in 1848 and he might be worth looking at as he was in Hampshire in 1871  and seemed he went to America
Update:
Actually looking at his tree it's just muddled too.He put Walter as father on his marriage to Harriet Bailey but if I have the right Walter Shave on 1871 census he is with his mother Mary A Shave and another man and she is a widow . There are a few trees on A for Walter and a couple of different fathers for him.
Will search Baileys to see .
I just think that Martina and Benedict were a different class to Walter and Harriet as awful as that sounds. They both signed with a mark on there wedding cert and Benedict grew up with servants etc and from what the lady said Murcia and Felicitias where "well to do".
I really dont think they were related but will look more ,I think they knew the Shaves,they probably knew he didnt have long to live  and a payment was made to registered their daughter .

34
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Sunday 29 December 19 09:52 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: avm228 on Sunday 29 December 19 09:22 GMT (UK)
Perhaps they were prepared to lie to the registrar but not the vicar?

It seem pretty clear she wasn’t Walter and Harriet’s natural child. Why she was registered as theirs is far from obvious, but likely to be either that she was genuinely intended to be brought up by them or that it was a deliberate artifice to provide her with apparent legitimacy despite her illegitimate birth.

If she was to be brought up by the Shaves, that plan may have changed after Walter’s early death. But it is puzzling why they, with a young family already, would have wanted to take on somebody else’s child in any event. In the absence of a family/friends link, one imagines a financial inducement is likely to have been involved.

Sorry avm I didn't see you had replied ,agree 100% with all your theories .Wonder how the 2 families even knew each other,maybe Harriet worked for Martina ?

35
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Sunday 29 December 19 09:49 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: louisa maud on Sunday 29 December 19 09:14 GMT (UK)
I have gone back to the beginning with this topic

If Martina is the child of Harriet and Walter I am wondering why she wasn't baptised as such soon after birth, I found 4 other Shave sibling's all belonging to Walter and Harriet baptised soon after birth, no Martina

Because she wasn't there child ,we think they registered her for Martina and Benedict,he was married and Martina was hiding something (using false name Burwaw a year before baby Martina was born.

 Walter Shave died from syphilis and he had had it some time .I suspect the Shave were paid to register the baby .

36
The Common Room / Re: Harriet Bailey Aka Martina Ross
« on: Saturday 28 December 19 19:21 GMT (UK)  »
I found what I thought was a death of James Halliwell Morris aged 79 in Manchester,he married Elizabeth Blackwell in 1870 I think but after looking at the family for ages I noticed the burial was 6th Dec !
Very frustrating

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