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Wow, thanks Annette - that's a goldmine of information which I believe does show very plausible links, following the definitive one to the Kenwyn link with the London address. Tricky about Kate Cox though.

It's a bit odd and sounds a bit as if someone was trying to muddy the waters deliberately. Perhaps Albert didn't like his surname (perhaps because of the slang usage, which apparently has a long history!)? Is the husband of Emily Kate Cock being a Collins just a coincidence? Perhaps he adopted his brother-in-law's name after his own, then didn't want to name his married sister as having such a similar surname (Collins) as him?

I haven't been able to find any references to Cock-Collins in the UK Archives, although of course there are plenty of Cocks and Collinses. (I think I checked and none matched Albert Edward.)

How would I go about trying to obtain a copy of the birth certificate of Albert Edward Cock? Google brings me to this site: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ - is this the best way to obtain them?

Now I just have to try to put it all together and see if I can locate any further information via original records.

(Is there any point in my posting in the Cornwall section of this forum at the point where I hit the wall - or have all of the available likely resources been covered by all of you helpful people already?)

Thanks very much, peeps. That is somewhat disappointing but at least that's one avenue ruled out, if he's definitely with Mary Ann in 1901 and 1911. (I have now found some Electoral Roll entries via Family Search for Albert Edward Collings at Lower Charles St - no longer there, but near Meredith St in Islingon, 19010-12 - renting a single room, no mention of a wife??; but there's also an Alfred Edward Collins also on electoral roll at Florence St, Depford (and another at Newington Causeway). I don't know. I give up there. I suppose the names were fairly common.)

Back to the matter in hand. Yes, there's definitely some kind of story behind this. The details on Albert's 3rd son Cecil are somewhat odd too: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q7rzg92pgyj59sn/Cock-Collins%2C%20Cecil%20-%20birth%20cert.%201904-07-20.pdf?dl=0

The parents were apparently temporarily in London. (I haven't found any passenger records of their transit, and presumably they would have had two other infants with them?!). As you can see, the mother's address is given as 146 Caistor Park Road, and the baby born at 20 Corporation St, about half a mile away. It's all most peculiar. They were back in Cape Town by 1907 at the latest, when the 4th son was born.

Annette - that service record in the Bechuanaland Police does sound promising, seeing that he is named variously as Constable, Sergeant and Police Inspector on various sons' birth certificate. I will digest this information and work out how to go about getting a birth certificate for the Truro Cock. (Is it worth my posting requests for further information in the Cornwall forum, do you think?)

Another interesting thing to note is that Cecil is given the 3rd name Hopecook (which I think is a misspelled version of Hopecock, which I came across somewhere else along the way) - but on all later documentation I have, inlcuding his death certificate, his 3rd name was Christopher, by the age of 23. However, the header information given on this site here: http://www.ancestor.co.za/COCK-COLLINS, which refers to his death, says "CECIL SIDNEY CHRISTOPHER    COCK-COLLINS         ALSO KNOWN AS CECIL SIDNEY HOPECOCK COLLINS    1952".

Firstly, Martha Cox, for whom I had noted a record in the 1881 Census as follows: "England and Wales Census, 1881," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X3PQ-LNT : 16 November 2014), Martha Cox in household of William Cox, Islington, Middlesex, England; from "1881 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing p. 64, PRO RG 11/231 / 63, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey; FHL microfilm 1,341,050.
- only FamilySearch tells me that the record is no longer available. Is anyone able to verify the following information, which I noted from that record?
"It lists her 4 children with the surname Collins, ranging in ages from 6 to 14. Her second husband is William Cox, but the children retain the name Collins." The 4 children I have created for her are James Frederick, Frederick Charles (died as an infant 1846 - records found), Ada L, Albert Edward and George H.

From other records I have surmised that she was previously married to Frederick Collings and the family turn up in Clerkenwell in the 1871 Census here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBD2-B9S, with 2 children, James and Ada.

Frederick dies in 1875 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2JK9-Q68, and she marries William Cox in July 1880 in Newington: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ4Y-MR3

The reason I am looking at this family in the first place is because the origins of an Albert Edward Cock-Collins, who turns up in Cape Town at the end of the 19th C, remain mysterious. There are no other recorded instances of this surname, save his descendants. One of the family stories suggested that he had connections to Cornwall, but previous research down this line (everything I could lay my hands on in Cornish records of that period) showed no evidence of this surname. We know that he (and his wife Martha Carter, from Cape Town) returned to London around 1904, where his third son Cecil was born in West Ham.

I happened upon the Cox/Collings connection in my last bout of research a year or two back, but got no further, and would like to revisit and build on this if possible. What do you think of the likelihood of this connection?

I have also made notes (possibly from records sighted on Ancestry or FindMyPast) that there was an A.E.Collins who made a passport application on 24 June 1894, and there's an A.E.Cox who was a passenger on the Mexican on May 23rd 1896 (although no information about the destination).

If anyone can assist with that 1881 Census record, and/or offer any other suggestions or opinions on this matter, I'd appreciate it.

Hi John

Oh, thanks very much for spotting and posting those. I remember seeing quite a lot of Taylors, but must have missed the "Awbut"s. I'll have to come back to this with fresh brain and eyes when I have time and sketch out the Aubert family connections before putting the records up online, I think.

(In the meantime, last night I got somewhat sidetracked by following up some of the Mumfords on Frances' husband's side - much easier to track because indexed and mostly spelt correctly on the transcriptions.)

Cheers,
Mel

Yes, could well be, as it seems that Aubert did morph into Albert over time (and/or vice versa, if this is to be believed: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Aubert - although here's a different version of its orgins: https://www.houseofnames.com/aubert-family-crest).

Only now I'm further confused, having scrolled forward and found a son of Thomas Aubert buried 15 April 1711 - no name, possibly stillborn (img 36, rhs) and another son, Edward, baptised 14 Aug 1714 (img 37, rhs - name looking a bit like Aubrett or Arbutt, but probably Aubert). These would have been after the death of the Mary who died in 1707, but I haven't seen him re-marry before them. Always possible that I missed something though.

And I passed by an Elizabeth Smith in the earlier records - probably that one that looks like Sneth. (And found a couple of sons of Nicholas Terr(e)y/Terroy and a daughter Elizabeth, but a bit too late to be the same generation as Mary Terrey.)

Yes, it would be a LOT easier if they listed the women's names, who after all did all the hard work of carrying and bearing the babies!! 

I guess there's nothing for it but to put my nose to the grindstone and trawl through some more records...

[Edit: Oh, and there was also a son Joseph, of Henry Albert born 23 Oct 1701 - either a previous wife, or not Henry Aubert this time, although I don't recall spotting any other Alberts.]

[Another edit: nothing yet, but note the baby born at the top left of image 37, where the mother's name is given, but the child labelled a Bastard - although can't quite read the name or the words beginning with "w". ]

Mel