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Messages - lucymags

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280
Norfolk / Re: Palgrave Frith c 1635
« on: Tuesday 01 November 16 03:13 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you Betty - I will get back to you via PM once I've had time to absorb and compare some of the info you've provided. There's definitely overlap with the tree I've been building!

Thank you very much also amondg - also interesting and valuable information. Can I just clarify something with you, please? Does "single stone" mean that both of those people were buried together and had the same headstone or memorial? I found a record on Freereg "Burial date 17 Jul 1710, Burial person forename Richard, Burial person surname GIRDLESTON, Register note Senr", which I had taken to be Palgrave's husband. Death in 1724 would have made him 89 years old... Not impossible, but unusual in those days I would think?

Incidentally, I found this website which gives an interesting explanation of the origin of the name http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Girdlestone "This is a locational name of East Anglian origins which derives from a now apparently "lost" hamlet near Holt in North Norfolk. The original spelling would seem to have been "Gridel's Tun", an Old English compound which translates as "The Farm of one called Gridel"." and also mentions that "The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Richard Girdlestone, which was dated September 1st 1571, married at Kelling Church, Norfolk."

Anyway I will use what I have now to see if I can come to any further conclusions and update the thread with my findings.

281
Norfolk / Re: Palgrave Frith c 1635
« on: Monday 31 October 16 08:00 GMT (UK)  »
This is a very old thread which I came across when googling for info on this very person (via the Girdlstones). She has caused me multiple headaches and taken 2 days of my life, and I still don't have the full story.

To cut a VERY long story short, I have put together this profile for her on Geni:
https://www.geni.com/people/Palgrave-or-Harwin-Palgrave-Girdlestone/6000000049007042821
and this is her husband:
https://www.geni.com/people/Richard/6000000049006695892?through=6000000049007042821

The easiest way to find your way around is to create a (free) account with Geni, if you don't already have one - then you can see the info and sources for the offspring, etc. as well.

The one probably dodgy assumption I made somewhat reluctantly, was creating a Richard as one of their sons, as BMD doesn't show a birth record for him and I was trying to make sense of a whole lot of user-submitted genealogies on FamilySearch, some patently incorrect. However on the burial record of the father, it does explicitly say "Senr", which seemed to suggest that there may have been a son called Richard.

As you can see, there have been multiple misspellings or variant spellings of Palgrave. The transcription of her marriage record says “Pagrane Fish”, her burial record gives the name “Harwin Pagrave Gurdleston”, and the only other records relating to her that I’ve been able to find so far have been based on user genealogies on FamilySearch and therefore not reliable. (To complicate matters, Richard and Palgrave also named one of their daughters Palgrave, which has led to further confusion.)

IF anyone has any access to original records in the general area of Letheringsett, Baconsthorpe, Thornage, Bale, or Barningham, it would be great to shed some light on the mystery of Palgrave Frith/Fish/whatever.

I've discovered and written to a Palgrave Society, based in North Barningham, as that name (as a surname) seems to have been common in that area.

To the OP, if you're still following this thread: where did you obtain your information from, and have you anything further to add at this point?

282
Warwickshire / Re: John Mumford m. Frances Hau??? in Ladbroke, child christened in Harbury
« on: Sunday 20 March 16 06:18 GMT (UK)  »
Unfortunately none of the Harberts match strongly enough to be convincing. The first name (Frances) must be correct, as it is mentioned on the children's baptisms, but the only Frances Harbert was born in Berkshire and that, combined with the fact that the spelling really looks like "Haub..t" is enough to dissaude me from this one. So I guess this will just have to go on the back-burner for now. (Perhaps they eloped and she deliberately changed her name?)
 :-\

283
Warwickshire / Re: John Mumford m. Frances Hau??? in Ladbroke, child christened in Harbury
« on: Saturday 19 March 16 12:14 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: frogspawn4 on Saturday 19 March 16 08:59 GMT (UK)
16 nov 1738 at  Ladbroke
John Mumford and 'James' Haubret


Ha ha - I didn't think they allowed gay marriage back in those days!

Quote from: jim1 on Saturday 19 March 16 10:43 GMT (UK)
I think Jay is probably right that the name is Harbert as there are no Hauberts anywhere that I can see.
The NBI is usually a good place to look for odd names & this is what there is for Harbert in Warks.

Thanks both of you - that is very helpful, as I can now see a lot of Harbert christenings on FamilySearch, many in Leamington, with a cluster around Harbury and Lighthorne - so all pretty close. I'm sure you must be right. There is a father Gulielmi Harbert, who sounds foreign... so I will trawl through these records and see if I can find a likely match for "Frances Harbury/James Haubret"!
(It could be tomorrow Oz time - it's getting late down here.  :) )

Mel

[Edit: p.s. Google just revealed to me (including one source from another thread on this site) that Gulielmi is of course a Latin form of William. I should have guessed. Never did Latin but it's not a million miles away from the French Guillaume. Mind you the offspring names such as Elizabetha, Margaretta, Dorcas, etc. are a bit unusual too - and also one branch of the family using "ae" endings, as is Thomae...]

284
Warwickshire / Re: John Mumford m. Frances Hau??? in Ladbroke, child christened in Harbury
« on: Saturday 19 March 16 06:18 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for that, Shirl. I have tried looking for variations like that on FamilySearch but have come up with nothing in England so far - although there are some Frances Hauberts in the US, but of course none as early as 1720... And now I see some in Germany, hmmm...

Unfortunately I don't have direct access to Ladbroke registers - have to rely on what I can find on FamilySearch.

Mel.

285
Warwickshire / John Mumford m. Frances Hau??? in Ladbroke, child christened in Harbury
« on: Friday 18 March 16 11:43 GMT (UK)  »
I've been chasing the female line up this branch (most of them Sarahs!), but seem to be stumped with this Frances' maiden name.

The baptism record of their child, Sarah, at Harbury in 1739 is here: "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JMFF-LWP : accessed 18 March 2016), Frances in entry for Sarah Mumford, 02 Dec 1739; citing HARBURY,WARWICK,ENGLAND, reference ; FHL microfilm 554,797.

- but the marriage record has been transcribed incorrectly as "John Munford" and "Sarah Harbury", which you can see if you look closely (record only available when logged in - free; bottom left page): "England, Warwickshire Parish Registers, 1535-1984," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VHXZ-T7N : accessed 18 March 2016), John Munford and Frances Harbury, 16 Nov 1738, Marriage; citing Ladbrooke, Warwickshire, England, Record Office, Warwick; FHL microfilm 549,656.
- have also attached a screenshot of the above.

Wondering if anyone has better eyes than I have, or any other access to these records which might help with her surname?  ???

286
Somerset / Re: John Balne and Ellizabeth Boucher - origins
« on: Saturday 12 September 15 10:24 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: DRH123 on Saturday 12 September 15 09:15 BST (UK)

That one was at Englishcombe and aged 30.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01g3u/

David

Thanks again, David.
The link didn't actually take me straight there (could be the cookies problem), but anyway I found him - and his marriage to Priscilla Cottle in 1797... Looks as if he's a likely descendant (all in the same general area), but I don't have time just now to work out how. There seems to be a number of later Giles Balnes too, worth investigating. I'll come back to it when I can.
 :)

287
Somerset / Re: John Balne and Ellizabeth Boucher - origins
« on: Saturday 12 September 15 05:51 BST (UK)  »
I agree about preferring more documentation, but for me sometimes it's better to create a skeleton and recording what I have, until something better comes along or I have time to dig further (else I am liable to forget what I'd seen before). For me, the information given above by David is sound enough to link James, Betty and John.

I've added a brother Giles in the meantime - but are you able to share the source of this will, and/or confirm the date of death (or at least a "before" date)?

A quick look on FamilySearch "England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991" gives a Giles who died in 1763 in London (unlikely?) and this one in Somerset: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZRT-TMV - in 1802. Is that too late?

[My attention is not fully on the Balnes at the moment because I'm chasing a trail on another branch - when I have time!]

288
Somerset / Re: John Balne and Ellizabeth Boucher - origins
« on: Tuesday 08 September 15 02:03 BST (UK)  »
Hi Tom

Yes, I think that is more or less what I have put together, except my records say that the son John (Jonathan?) died in June 1966, based on a burial record I found in FamilySearch https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J86T-6M2 (some guesswork involved though!). Also that the elder John probably had a brother, James, who died young, and the younger John a brother called Peter, born 1764, died 1765.

Facing the same difficulities as you found in tracing back prior to the 18th C, I have temporarily abandoned the Balnes to come back to later. What I'd really like to find is the connection between the Yorkshire Balnes (from Balne) and the Bath/Bristol Balnes. It even crossed my mind that perhaps they arose independently (with the Latin root balneo, etc. meaning baths - quite a coincidence that Bath also has warm springs, similar to Askern Spa not far from Balne, which is a likely origin of the name of that village). But perhaps the Yorkshire Balnes travelled south-west for some reason.  ???

The William Henry Balne at Agincourt, according to various sources I found, was Clerk of the King's Kitchen (i.e. he ran the kitchens): http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/agincourt.htm. Retinue is just a general word meaning advisor or assistant to an important person - in this case, the king, presumably!

I don't know whether you're able to see and follow all of the descendants of this line on Geni, but this is the profile I constructed for James: http://www.geni.com/people/James-Balne/6000000035947229466?from_flash=1&fsession_id=1441672831762&through=6000000025264823526
Others on Geni had already created some of the descendants but I just added to them as I found what appeared to be correct information.

I will keep looking but might not get back to the Balnes for a week or three... but please keep in touch on this matter because I am as keen as you are on finding those missing links!
 :)
Mel


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