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Messages - Ghostwheel

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10
Kerry / Re: Train accident
« on: Saturday 25 November 23 19:49 GMT (UK)  »
@ mckha489 and Stanwix England

Thanks for the find! 

But I think the year would probably be too early. 

I should have provided this part earlier but the info about the death (1896)  was recorded in 1903, so even though the man who recorded it was very inaccurate, I wouldn't guess it could be any earlier than about 1890.

The name James passes the test of not being a known name of the brothers:
Pat
Daniel
Michael

Though, I can't immediately think of anyone in the extended family with the name James. 

Other names I have seen of distant kin without the exact relationship known are Timothy and Charles.

As far as I know the family has no connection to Listowel.

42 sounds sort of specific.  But I wouldn't necessarily shrug off 40, if it were closer to 1896.

11
Kerry / Re: Train accident
« on: Saturday 25 November 23 19:18 GMT (UK)  »
@aghadowey
Quote
When did the parents marry?
There is an index to a record in Glenbeigh Parish, which suggests it was  1851.  I must qualify it, as the marriage records for that period seem quite fragmentary, and I have never seen the original entry.  But in terms of a timeline for the mother.  I have identified her as being born in 1831, so it is entirely possible it is correct.  At least, I am sure it is close to correct, based on information Bridget (the daughter, who was very good with dates.) provided about the age of one of her sisters.

The parents, Michael O'Brien and Bridget Breen lived in Breanlee, Killorglin Parish.

That is a very remote spot.  The place where they have a parking lot for climbers to Ireland's highest peak.

I've never been completely clear on how the registration system worked.  Their district was Caherciveen.  If they really had to travel all the way there, I think it would have been a hard journey.  Only one sibling had their birth registered. 

The parish itself, for reasons unclear to me, has older records but is missing a large period spanning very roughly from about 1850-1880, as such, there are no surviving baptisms for the siblings.

My main sources of information for the siblings comes from various censuses (including American) and the Forester records of Bridget (daughter) and her brother Pat.  These were life insurance records made in the vicinity of Boston, USA.

Trouble is the Forester records don't actually include the siblings names, just their ages and health status, as reported by the brother and sister.

Pat (filled out his application in 1903) was very bad with dates.

While Bridget (who filled hers out in
1913)was very good with them, but Bridget didn't mention the brother who died in a train accident.

The number of siblings each gave doesn't quite agree, and I can't follow the logic behind it, only to think that neither was considering the possibility anyone would want to look at it for genealogical purposes.

Pat reported 4 sisters living in 1903, and 0 brothers living (though he probably had at least 2 in Ireland), while he reported one dead brother. (Who d. c1896 after the train accident)

Bridget reported 3 sisters living in 1913, while not mentioning a fourth, living or dead.  She reported two brothers living and one who died in 1906.

I even know the month (May) he died and the cause of death (pneumonia) but I have never been able to find the death record, and would guess it was never reported.

These are the siblings I know of:

Emigrated to Boston
Bridget 1870-1929
Julia M. 1867?-1921 (never married)
Patrick J. 1862?-1949

In Ireland in 1901
Daniel 1855?-1930 (Liv. in Breanlee)
Mary 1858?-1932 (Kilcurrane West)
Michael 1862?-1906? (In Breanlee in 1901, Suspect never married, don't think his death was reported)

Whereabouts and identity unknown

Sister b1853?, Liv. in 1903, possibly dead by 1913, but not necessarily.

Brother (Patrick, who was very bad with dates gives about c1877-c1896.  The first number is clearly off, and probably not even close)

Patrick said that all four of his grandparents died at age 100.  Though, by the time his sister filled out her application, it did not request this information.

Pat said his father died in 1885, when it was 1887.  And called his mother 80, when she was really about 72.  He called his sister 30, when she was about 33.

I think the brother who died from the train accident would have had to been close to Bridget's age (b1870).  It's not altogether impossible he was younger than his sister Bridget, as Pat seemed to imply.  But I think it is quite certain that he wasn't really a teenager, as reported by Pat, unless they had adopted him.

12
Ireland / Re: Can a priest reside outside his parish?
« on: Saturday 25 November 23 01:06 GMT (UK)  »
I've found a grave that is kind of interesting.  Seems to imply that a priest was buried in his first parish, not the one he was serving in when he died.

Though, he wasn't very old when he died.

No idea where he was born, though I am tenatively guessing somewhere else.

Quote
Beneath are deposited the mortal remains of the Rev. James Butler, Admr. of Carlow. Died the 13th of April, 1860, aged 37 years. His meekmess, zeal for education, and tender sympathy for the afflicted, were eminent amongst the many virtues which adorned his character. This monument reveals the affectionate remembrance of him in this Parish, where his first years in the holy ministry were zealously spent. A memorial window in the Cathedral of Carlow attests the reverential affection which his flock justly entertained for this beloved Pastor. In a short space he fulfilled a long time. His memory shall be in perennial benediction. May he rest in peace

https://www.balynaparish.ie/our-parish/parish-history/

13
Ireland / Re: Can a priest reside outside his parish?
« on: Friday 24 November 23 23:47 GMT (UK)  »
By the way, does anyone know if there is any logic to the location of the parish of a vicar?

Do they try to put a vicar in a certain place?  Or is it just a random place in the diocese?  Maybe, where a parish priest received a promotion, to become vicar because he was seen as a suitable candidate.

14
Ireland / Re: Can a priest reside outside his parish?
« on: Friday 24 November 23 23:38 GMT (UK)  »
@Wexflyer
Thanks, those are interesting examples!

I only know something about one priest:

Rev. Andrew Duggan 1803-1836

Died in Carlow, during a cholera epidemic, after tending the sick.  Thousands went to his funeral, and his grave and family home became a place of pilgrimage.

Buried very near to his family home in the graveyard at Carrick-Oris, which is about 56 km from where he died.  Same diocese, but not same county.  Think he was buried in his native parish.  At least very near to his family home.

I never saw the tombstone, so I am not sure that I ever saw the full inscription, or if anyone is buried in the same grave, but I do know his brother erected the stone and is buried in the same cemetery.

I was under the impression that the term 'mensal parish' has a different meaning for Catholics than Church of England.  But, perhaps, it originally meant the same thing?  Or I am wrong about it.

15
Ireland / Re: Can a priest reside outside his parish?
« on: Friday 24 November 23 12:31 GMT (UK)  »
@Wexflyer
Quote
I have a feeling this is really an historical question about the 17th/18th C?
Correct, I should have stated that.

One man I was wondering about in particular was an elderly parish priest, who died in the late 18th century and was buried in a parish that was not even adjacent.

He can be identified definitely because the stone was erected by another priest from the parish (with the same surname), who gave his own church.

I am wondering about what that would most likely mean.  That he had been reassigned there?  Or somehow died there - perhaps at a sort of home for priests?  Or that it was his native parish?
____
Some words or terms that I find a bit confusing:
"His substitute" referring to another priest on the 1697 return.  (I wonder whether this would imply that a priest had more than one parish, and was absent at times.  The return does not survive for the vast majority of Ireland, outside of Dublin and its very near environs)

"Mensal parish."  This is a term that I believe I have only seen in interpretive notes, relating to a portion of the 1697 return.  But I wonder if it would only mean where a Catholic bishop resides, or if there is some implication that he may have also resided at a second parish, at times.

16
Ireland / Can a priest reside outside his parish?
« on: Thursday 23 November 23 12:53 GMT (UK)  »
I was wondering if there was any church law that a priest should live inside his parish.

Anyone know what the practice was?

17
Kildare / Re: Clonkeen, in what Catholic Parish?
« on: Thursday 23 November 23 12:45 GMT (UK)  »
Much obliged for your help, Sinann.

I was also wondering whether another townland, Kilmurry, could have ever been in Balyna parish.

Balyna doesn't seem to be associated with that Civil Parish.  (Dunfierth)

But I know a priest of Balyna lived there in 1704.  (Could a priest live outside his parish?  I think I'll ask this question on the general board) And an old variant name for Balyna is Johnstown, which is a townland that borders Kilmurry.

If I had to guess, I would say that it was a part of Balyna, at one time.  But there appears to be no way to test it.

18
Kerry / Train accident
« on: Thursday 23 November 23 12:01 GMT (UK)  »
Is there any kind of volume that I could consult to discover a railway accident in Ireland? That probably took place in the 1890s.

I had heard that a sibling of my great grandparent who emigrated to America died in a train accident. (Or that is to say from injuries sustained about a week later.)

Now, I am afraid my starting base of information is pretty low.  I don't know the fellow's first name, since he likely has no birth or baptism record.  (Only my great grandmother has a birth record.). I only know three names that he couldn't have had, as they were the names of brothers living at that time

I don't know where the accident took place.  Whether in America or Ireland.  But I have tried to search some American volumes, which supposedly covered all train accidents in the state where at least three of the siblings lived, including nonfatal ones, and couldn't find any obvious connection.

The one guy who I thought it could be ended up having parents with different names.

Meanwhile, there were at least three siblings in Ireland at the time.

Finally, the brother who mentioned the accident did not have a good grasp of time, so it is difficult to be sure what year the accident took place.

It was supposed to be 1897, but that is probably wrong.  His age was supposed to be 19, but I would guess closer to 30.

If it happened anywhere in Ireland, I would guess it happened in the native county of Kerry.

I wonder if there were many railway deaths in Kerry.  It seems like they were very small trains.

He fell from a train, which made me wonder if he could have been a brakeman.

The name was O'Brien, and they lived near Killorglin and Killarney.

Has anyone heard of train deaths in Kerry around that time?

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