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Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Possible great grand father....?
« on: Monday 22 August 22 17:50 BST (UK) »
Hello all
I am looking for a bit of further assistance to firm up who I believe could be my great grand father on my dad’s paternal side. I am sorry for the essay!!
I have created a layout detailing family links as well as DNA data found so far (I find it easier to drop it into a diagram!!) but due to its potential sensitivity, I have anonymised it for a public forum as much as I can and used initials and DoB where I feel comfortable/know they are no longer with us.
On this diagram, I am labelled as SH on the bottom left. The green lines from myself to others show DNA matches I have identified and the red lines show DNA matches and the match cM identified between individuals on My Heritage.
The story so far is with the help of somebody close in my family, it was identified that my father (DH jr) had an ‘lost/previously unknown’ uncle (JGH). Both my dad’s uncle (JGH) and my dad’s father (DH sr) birth and marriage certificates show that their father was EH and mother MK, and obituary for EH and MK stated both JGH and DH sr were their sons. Everything appears on paper that its happy families so I work my way back on the EH line back to early 1600 with what I believe to be very good reliability and accuracy.
However family knowledge placed a question mark over the legitimacy over the birth records for DH sr and questioned if EH was the true biological father, despite having raised him from birth and everything on paper pointing to be ‘fact’.
I completed an Ancestry DNA test, exported that onto My Heritage and GedMatch and reviewed matches.
It became immediately clear that I had DNA matches into both my mothers (MW) paternal and maternal sides, but only had matches on my dads (DH jr) maternal side, and only matches on DH sr’s maternal side, nothing on DR sr paternal (i.e. nothing further on EH).
I was a match to my dads uncle but fairly low (499cM) considering where he was in relation to myself in the tree. After speaking to the person who managed JGH’s DNA, they confirmed they had DNA matches into EH’s ancestry firming up the prospect that my dad’s father (DH sr) was not biological to EH, but somebody else.
There are 2 DNA matches which did not add up to any of my existing lines or have a clear family path to myself.
The first is a 169cM match (SD on tree) on Ancestry with a good, detailed tree but there was no clear or obvious link as to how we are related and a question mark over family localities – Thrulines had no suggestions for this individual either. My roots are firmly placed in Staffordshire and Shropshire, where SD’s is Birmingham. Not a million miles apart but a clear line in the sand.
A 2nd stronger match on MyHeritage which I had initially overlooked – GS with a match of 387cM.
With some help it was identified that SD was related to GS through their fathers being siblings. GS’s father is VD.
Despite the initial roots in Birmingham, it transpired that VD in 1934 (source: Newspaper article) was living in Newcastle-Under-Lyme, Staffordshire for an amount of time before moving up to Manchester (1939 register). The address for VD in 1934 is about 3-4 miles away from where DH sr’s mother (MK) was living in 1933 when she married EH and later that year DH sr was born.
It is unclear when VD left Birmingham, however family knowledge suggests he moved out of Birmingham late 1920’s, very early 1930’s. Attempting to tracing him via electoral roll doesn't yield any acceptable results.
I also identified that MK was pregnant with DH sr when she married EH and would have been around 3-4 months at the time. There is also a question mark over EH’s location at the time.
In my mind at the moment, with the information I have to hand, VD could be the father of DH sr and that the relationship to MK was either a ‘fling’ or short lived. However, I would like to present this information to somebody less invested in the situation than myself for review to see if the same opinion can be formed.
In terms of 'paperwork' – I am reasonably happy that I have gone as far as I can (IE probate searches, National and local archive searches [online], appropriate census, BMD, electoral register and BNA searches) and that the contact I have with the other family is knowledgeable about his own records.
EH/MK – I have in 1921 census, 1939 register, full BMD and some newspaper articles (obituary). EM was as far as I understand in the military so trying to source those records but other than potentially being away around the time of conception, im not really sure what insight it will give me.
DH sr - I have in 1939 register, full BMD. No death obituary (despite desperately trying!)
VD – I have a newspaper article of his location in 1934, 1939 register, along with BMD supplied by another tree owner (and verified for accuracy)
In terms of DNA
JGH to myself = 499cM, shared segments 23, largest segment 99cm (Ancestry source)
GS to myself = 387.6cM, shared segments 12, largest segment 73.1cM (My Heritage source)
SD to myself = 169.4cM, shared segments: 9 largest segment 39.9cM (My Heritage source)
However for SD, Ancestry reports: 195cm across 12 segments, largest 40cm
AR = 10cM, shared segments 1, longest segment 10cM (My Heritage source)
Any help/guidance would be appreciated - I think I know the answer, however being a DNA rookie, I could be off the mark 'wanting' it to be the answer!
Thanks
Steve
I am looking for a bit of further assistance to firm up who I believe could be my great grand father on my dad’s paternal side. I am sorry for the essay!!
I have created a layout detailing family links as well as DNA data found so far (I find it easier to drop it into a diagram!!) but due to its potential sensitivity, I have anonymised it for a public forum as much as I can and used initials and DoB where I feel comfortable/know they are no longer with us.
On this diagram, I am labelled as SH on the bottom left. The green lines from myself to others show DNA matches I have identified and the red lines show DNA matches and the match cM identified between individuals on My Heritage.
The story so far is with the help of somebody close in my family, it was identified that my father (DH jr) had an ‘lost/previously unknown’ uncle (JGH). Both my dad’s uncle (JGH) and my dad’s father (DH sr) birth and marriage certificates show that their father was EH and mother MK, and obituary for EH and MK stated both JGH and DH sr were their sons. Everything appears on paper that its happy families so I work my way back on the EH line back to early 1600 with what I believe to be very good reliability and accuracy.
However family knowledge placed a question mark over the legitimacy over the birth records for DH sr and questioned if EH was the true biological father, despite having raised him from birth and everything on paper pointing to be ‘fact’.
I completed an Ancestry DNA test, exported that onto My Heritage and GedMatch and reviewed matches.
It became immediately clear that I had DNA matches into both my mothers (MW) paternal and maternal sides, but only had matches on my dads (DH jr) maternal side, and only matches on DH sr’s maternal side, nothing on DR sr paternal (i.e. nothing further on EH).
I was a match to my dads uncle but fairly low (499cM) considering where he was in relation to myself in the tree. After speaking to the person who managed JGH’s DNA, they confirmed they had DNA matches into EH’s ancestry firming up the prospect that my dad’s father (DH sr) was not biological to EH, but somebody else.
There are 2 DNA matches which did not add up to any of my existing lines or have a clear family path to myself.
The first is a 169cM match (SD on tree) on Ancestry with a good, detailed tree but there was no clear or obvious link as to how we are related and a question mark over family localities – Thrulines had no suggestions for this individual either. My roots are firmly placed in Staffordshire and Shropshire, where SD’s is Birmingham. Not a million miles apart but a clear line in the sand.
A 2nd stronger match on MyHeritage which I had initially overlooked – GS with a match of 387cM.
With some help it was identified that SD was related to GS through their fathers being siblings. GS’s father is VD.
Despite the initial roots in Birmingham, it transpired that VD in 1934 (source: Newspaper article) was living in Newcastle-Under-Lyme, Staffordshire for an amount of time before moving up to Manchester (1939 register). The address for VD in 1934 is about 3-4 miles away from where DH sr’s mother (MK) was living in 1933 when she married EH and later that year DH sr was born.
It is unclear when VD left Birmingham, however family knowledge suggests he moved out of Birmingham late 1920’s, very early 1930’s. Attempting to tracing him via electoral roll doesn't yield any acceptable results.
I also identified that MK was pregnant with DH sr when she married EH and would have been around 3-4 months at the time. There is also a question mark over EH’s location at the time.
In my mind at the moment, with the information I have to hand, VD could be the father of DH sr and that the relationship to MK was either a ‘fling’ or short lived. However, I would like to present this information to somebody less invested in the situation than myself for review to see if the same opinion can be formed.
In terms of 'paperwork' – I am reasonably happy that I have gone as far as I can (IE probate searches, National and local archive searches [online], appropriate census, BMD, electoral register and BNA searches) and that the contact I have with the other family is knowledgeable about his own records.
EH/MK – I have in 1921 census, 1939 register, full BMD and some newspaper articles (obituary). EM was as far as I understand in the military so trying to source those records but other than potentially being away around the time of conception, im not really sure what insight it will give me.
DH sr - I have in 1939 register, full BMD. No death obituary (despite desperately trying!)
VD – I have a newspaper article of his location in 1934, 1939 register, along with BMD supplied by another tree owner (and verified for accuracy)
In terms of DNA
JGH to myself = 499cM, shared segments 23, largest segment 99cm (Ancestry source)
GS to myself = 387.6cM, shared segments 12, largest segment 73.1cM (My Heritage source)
SD to myself = 169.4cM, shared segments: 9 largest segment 39.9cM (My Heritage source)
However for SD, Ancestry reports: 195cm across 12 segments, largest 40cm
AR = 10cM, shared segments 1, longest segment 10cM (My Heritage source)
Any help/guidance would be appreciated - I think I know the answer, however being a DNA rookie, I could be off the mark 'wanting' it to be the answer!
Thanks
Steve
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