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Messages - jj.carroll

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10
Tyrone / Re: The Coady's as an off shoot of McCarroll's
« on: Tuesday 09 October 18 15:41 BST (UK)  »
scotmum - the error is mine, and it can't be attributed to anyone else.  Catherine was the McCarroll that married a Coady and Ellen was another McCarroll girl that married a Bogan.

jjc

11
Tyrone / Re: The Coady's as an off shoot of McCarroll's
« on: Tuesday 09 October 18 15:38 BST (UK)  »
We now have a husband to Catherine, Patrick J. and a date of his death (22-7-59).  That is, if this is the proper tie-in and with little more than what has been stated we can assume, but still challenge.  At least it gives us some pause to assess just when Patrick and Kitty got married, but it opens up some avenues of research. While the address is different than that of the obituary of Catherine (Bath Street), it is in Irishtown.

Again, thank you scotmum!

jjc

12
Tyrone / Re: The Coady's as an off shoot of McCarroll's
« on: Tuesday 09 October 18 15:26 BST (UK)  »
I would like to thank scotmum for her enlightened input. 

This does help in that although I knew Kitty lived in Irishtown, without the knowledge of the "Bath Street" there would be no way for us to look for her death notice.  While this does not give an address it favors some address to which further research may take place.  The date was important (1987) in that without it there was nothing to surmise where or when she was alive.

Significantly, it does not go to her origins.  We still don't know just where she got married, or when.  And when did she move to the Bath Street address.

It may open some avenues to address, such as those Coady's birth or baptism (as I recall, there were seven children).

But it could not even begin without the input of scotmum.  Thank you.

jjc

13
Tyrone / Re: The Coady's as an off shoot of McCarroll's
« on: Tuesday 09 October 18 14:44 BST (UK)  »
Thank you Hallmark - Very interesting that you might have looked up these death notices.  But I do not see any Catherine's there, and one must keep in mind that she began as a McCarroll. And these Carroll's were located at that time that these death notices took place in and around County Tyrone.

14
Tyrone / Re: The Coady's as an off shoot of McCarroll's
« on: Tuesday 09 October 18 14:33 BST (UK)  »
Aghadowey - You will note that in posting about the living children of Catherine there was no attempt to post "details."  While I may have referenced someone's move to France the details were not divulged.  Also, I did say that some had passed away and a few were still using their walkers, or canes like myself, and that these souls were in retirement or a still practicing solicitor - but no details that would identify them.

You may recall about ten years ago that it was a Coady that responded, for the first time, and you noted this stricture and told him or her to her/his conversation on a private basis.

I have kept you admonition to heart and have attempted to make my posting very general in nature. 

I have stated that Catherine McCarroll was the matriarch of this minor sept, but have not given any other details.  That is not because she is still alive, but for Tyrone there is no record of this individual.  In fact, regarding the census there is only one instance reported for County Tyrone.

Do you happen to have in your bag of tricks something on the line as with Andrew and Ellen?

I am beginning to wonder about my previous posting regarding mores and the females of the Carroll clan.  I know you recall Agnes Bridget Gaffigan who came over the seas to marry Michael, and I said that was something different.  But here we have two, and maybe three, females that did not tie their strings in County Tyrone.

jjc

15
Tyrone / The Coady's as an off shoot of McCarroll's
« on: Tuesday 09 October 18 01:01 BST (UK)  »
I started a thread that covered two female members of the Carroll (McCarroll) family from County Tyrone.  It has become quite clear that the Ellen McCarroll's marriage to Andrew Bogan has clearly had its way on these boards. So it was time to split the beginning and create one for the Coady's.

Catherine McCarroll (known as Kitty) married a Coady and that group became very extensive.  The Coady's moved as far away from County Tyrone to Irishtown in Dublin, and even into France. But some stayed in in the Omagh area. Others traveled to Belfast.

At one time I had the good experience of visiting with some of the Coady family, and even had morning breakfast tea with Kitty in her home in Dublin. In fact I think we had a couple of times over tea - but that was a long time ago.

From this grocers in Dublin they spread far an wide and I lost track of many of them. Mary moved to France.  But the twins stayed in the Dublin area.  I think that there were 7 offspring and possibly two have survived and have made inroads to another generation.

The Coady's in Omagh survived the terrible slaughter on that fateful day and I wonder just how Charles made it. I hope that we can recall all of those days and join in assisting in bringing new light to the Coady name.

16
Tyrone / Re: The Carroll's and the Coady's and Bogan's
« on: Monday 08 October 18 14:46 BST (UK)  »
 :) The reason why at that time there was no one to figure out just when Andrew was born, you did it.  Like my grandparents, but reversed, Ellen went to the U.S. to be with Andrew and my grandmother Agnes Bridget Gaffigan came to Ireland to be with Michael.  But that is another story.

Unlike Aggie B., I would think that the mores were a little more strict regarding Ellen.  In Ireland, at the turn of the century, what was considered moral and ethical behavior and determined the structure the difference between right and wrong, it would seem very unlikely that Ellen would place such in the dustbin. That is not to say, it could not have occurred.  :P

But until we hear from the relatives that have knowledge of those things it will be a bother.

Your having located these manifests is a wonderment, unless you have a much greater touch regarding the Bogans.  Your previous reference to possible problems might be a tell.

aghadowey, there are some things that you and I share, and it is a capacity to think along the lines that there is only one way to have it.  For example, here you have the death certificate and I only had Ms. Ross.  You sometimes fail to see that with the very complex factors that make up these things, like the business with the marriage of Ellen and Andrew, there can be other ways to describe the happenstance.  As a real old attorney I would sometimes fail to see that there are other ways to approach a problem.

You have quite a capacity regarding all of these things, and it must be acknowledged that you are so much ahead of the game than all of us put together - seeking to find out about the past.  It must be remembered that we all appreciate your knowledge and insights.

jjc

17
Tyrone / Re: The Carroll's and the Coady's and Bogan's
« on: Monday 08 October 18 00:52 BST (UK)  »
 :) Thank you for your fee information; I really appreciate it. 

To clarify some of the errors you seem to have dug up let me say that most of the things that I have stated up to now were taken from the Ulster Historical Foundation's report to me circa 1990, modified by what I could get from the general archives such as those of the 1901-1911 census contained in the National Archives.  While some of the data that has been used in the Ulster Foundation's report, it was very extensive and extremely expensive - but they also stated that there were many assumptions made that could (and couldn't) stand future research.

This does not excuse me for the errors are mine, as are the assumptions made.  ::)

You do seem to have gone the hard way and come up with some of the things that were missing when I first gathered the data, and then further researched it and drew my own conclusions.  For example, The Mother Hary was actually Mary - however I was relying upon the national archives and not the Ulster Historical Foundation.  That data was from there and not the dissertation that I paid for.  If you can't rely upon the NationalArchives, they had to be free of charge.

You have two references to what appear to be "manifests" from the City of Rome and the Oceanic, but did not explain what the context was to conclude that Andrew and Ellen were associated with those boats (or ships).  These two points apparently conflict in that they were both 1899 but the ages differed for Andrew.

A point of interest however, because I need to look at it further but the reference to the Tyrone cousin Thom Carroll may be my Father's uncle that went to live in San Francisco.  The reference to a cousin throws it off, in that Andrew was born in Fermanagh and there would be a distance between the two (especially at that time).

Your reference to Nurse Clarke may be correct but the statement regarding that the informant was not Teresa Ross is wrong.  This was in response to a letter seeking more information from the Tyrone Constitution.  She and a P. J. McClean did respond; and, I did have the opportunity to talk to Mr. McClean of Beragh.  It may have been that Teresa quoted what Nurse Clarke may have said, but the quotation in my post had nothing to do with Nurse Clarke.  ;D

My posting of the birth of John may have been cogent for the Ulster Historical report but when I made that reference, and the remarks, were based on the National Archives and it was an error that I did not pick up at this time.  8)  It was my boo boo and not the gatherers of that report.  :-X

There are always skeletons in our closets, some that we may find interesting except that they belong there.

Thank you, aghadowey  :)


18
Tyrone / Re: The Carroll's and the Coady's and Bogan's
« on: Sunday 07 October 18 21:58 BST (UK)  »
Would that be the Hugh that was 8 years old at the time?

jjc

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