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Hi Alan

As these burials are quite 'recent', I suggest in the first instance you try the cemeteries department at Reigate Council

http://www.reigate-banstead.gov.uk/public/community_living/life_events/death_bereavement/cemeteries.asp

There are many cemeteries in the area and they may hold the records centrally. However, they may also not take phone requests and you might have to make your request in writing and also pay a look-up charge. Some councils however are more than happy to help, depending on their workload.

Dawn

Hi KPM

I know we've been corresponding but I'll post a message here in case anyone else is reading this.

Good and bad news.....

I was working on a microfilm of the original registers, not a transcription. Couldn't find a baptism but I tried. The handwriting on some pages was almost illegible (faint and scribbly) some pages were damaged, I wasn't using their best microfilm reader and I ran out of time! I had to get back for the afternoon schoolrun. I'll be going again so I'll have another look but I don't think it's there. Don't finally rule it out just yet though.

Better luck with the marriage.

I've got you a copy of the actual register entry with George and Ann's signatures on it. Lucky you, a lot of my rellies from this time period left their marks! The witnesses, also signed in their own hands, were Thomas Butler and William Edmonds.

Dawn

I agree with your suggestion that alternatives and new cemeteries are needed. There are plans for one not 6 miles from where I live but the proposal is being objected to because of the loss of greenbelt land.

http://www.your-northwood-hills.co.uk/#cemetry

However, cremation should also be considered. The families can then scatter the ashes to the 4 winds or in a special place, or they can be kept in an urn for the family to look after, many a grandparent is sitting on a mantle piece somewhere.

But also consider this. My father had been a funeral director for over 50 years. When he retired 3 years ago he had to decide what to do with a cupboard full of uncollected urns of ashes dating back several decades. In that whole time he had written to the families, arranged and carried out other funerals for them, kept in touch with them, reminded them on a regular basis that he still had their dear departed loved ones in storage. None were collected. Last year my parents left London and moved to Lincolnshire, my father felt duty bound to make one last effort to reunite the urns with their families but with little success. So what did he do? Moved to Lincolnshire and took them with him. Now what will I and my brothers do with them when my parents finally die and we have their house to clear? If he couldn't get them back to the families what chance do we have.

Yes this is a subject close to our hearts but we must also remember that when the plots were then and are today purchased it is on the terms of a lease and at then end of that term the land reverts back to the cemetery company. It is in your families interests to keep safe the deeds to the plots and update and transfer the ownership when elderly relatives die.

By all means write and complain to your MP's, local authorities and cemetery companies, join cemetery Friends associations and campaign for this not to happen, but for a lot of families when great aunti Flo and great uncle Jack have left this life they are often forgotten without a second thought.

But when you do discover a family plot though, do you then start visiting on a regular basis, place plants or flowers, remember their anniversaries? With families so far removed from their ancestors these days it's very often not logistically possible.  Once you have a nice selection of photos they may never be visited again.

Going back to genealogy and us as genealogists, out of this country's population, we are a small group of people whose hobby does not appeal to everyone and likewise this re-use of graves will not interest, upset or anger a lot of the people.

Dawn

I'm sure my comments are going to cause a stir but I wanted to add my thoughts so here goes anyway.....

The City of London cemetery at Manor Park in the article opened in the 1850's. The early plots may have been sold on a 75 or 100 year 'lease' which would have long expired by now, not a freehold or 'in perpetuity' plot. The cemetery has done what it can with regard to contacting the descendents of the now also dead owners of the graves. This situation hasn't only just happened, it's been rumbling on for years.

I know we all get excited about finding our loved ones plots but the reality is often this. The graves are unloved, untended and unvisited. The local authorites who look after the cemeteries spend as much as they can on keeping them tidy but if they aren't visited what's the point? I discovered an old family plot in an early London cemetery and couldn't tidy up the grave very much as it's now considered a wildlife conservation area. To my knowledge I was the first visitor to the grave since the 1930's.

While the nation choses burial over cremation, this situation is going to be repeated several times. The cemetery has run out of space, London has run out of space and something needs to be done. Consider the fact that these plots may have been dug for 4 or 6 interrments and only 2 used so there is 'room' for 2 or 4 more on top. I know this sounds callous but it's a realistic proposal.

With regard to donation the headstones to FHS's, it's a great idea but where are they going to keep them, these memorials are solid marble and weigh several hundreds of pounds. The ones depicting angels and cherubs even more so. Many of the inscriptions have weathered away completely over the years and are completely illegible now. If you've ever been involved in a memorial inscription project you'll know exactly what I mean.

I know this subject will keep going for a while, we all have our own opinions which we are entitled to. I respect the comments of the previous posters and do not wish to cause offence by posting mine, but hope that another view point can be considered.

Thanks for reading.

Dawn

Hi Mark

Have you considered posting your request on the Rootschat Emigrants to Canada board? Someone there may be able to help.

Dawn