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Messages - Keitht

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640
Warwickshire / Re: Frank Greening - murderer
« on: Thursday 07 October 10 15:02 BST (UK)  »
Hi Jackie,

No, that's not him. We proved that he was born Q2 1874, which would make him about 6 at the time of the 1881 census.

Keith

641
Warwickshire / Re: Frank Greening - murderer
« on: Wednesday 06 October 10 23:36 BST (UK)  »
If anyone is interested in the ongoing saga of Frank's criminal career I've just discovered that his residence in the reform school in 1891 resulted from a March 1890 conviction for "forging a request for the payment of money", for which he was rewarded with 14 days hard labour and two years in the reform school.

I'm now beginning to wonder whether he was related to the Thomas Greening I have found who was given five years in Birmingham in August 1884 for what appears to be possession  of a counterfeit coin press or the Walter Greening given 10 years for burglary at Warwick Assizes in March 1891. Do we have a criminal dynasty?

Keith

642
Warwickshire / Re: Frank Greening - murderer
« on: Tuesday 05 October 10 14:19 BST (UK)  »
Yep, that's him. I actually found it about 10 minutes after my last post. I had been relying on the ages given for his 1901 incarceration and on the official record of execution, both of which understated his age. This, of course, means that he was actually 39 when he died.

Thanks again,

Keith

643
Warwickshire / Re: Frank Greening - murderer
« on: Tuesday 05 October 10 10:14 BST (UK)  »
Thanks to both ladies for yesterday's PMs, which have unravelled a very interesting story.

Frank Greening was in trouble with the law from at least the age of 16. In 1891 he was in a Reform School at Weston under Wetherly, between Warwick and Coventry, described as a schoolboy under sentence. By 1893, aged 18, he was arrsted for robbing a tobacconist shop in Birmingham and given 8 months hard labour. In August 1894 he was arrested for shooting a woman who had refused to live with him, commenting to the arresting officer that if she wasn't dead he would kill her when he got out of prison and by 1900 he was back in prison for a shop break-in.
In 1913 he had discovered his girlfriend, an alcoholic, in a "house of ill repute". He shot her, was convicted for her murder and subsequently hanged.

Throughout all the reports his birthplace is given as Birmingham but I am still unable to confirm this through GRO.

Thanks to all concerned for your very considerable help with this matter.

Keith

644
Warwickshire / Re: Frank Greening - murderer
« on: Monday 04 October 10 17:59 BST (UK)  »
Ye gods, was this man ever out of prison?

Thanks Jackie and Your Tree Searcher.

If YTS could copy over the gist of the newspaper report I'd be very grateful.

Keith

645
Warwickshire / Re: Frank Greening - murderer
« on: Monday 04 October 10 16:16 BST (UK)  »
Pete,

The entire Greening family appears elusive. Apart from Harry, born 1903, I can find no reference to them and when I saw the reference to a Frank Greening I hoped it might give me an 'in' to the family's background. No such luck, so newspapers appear to be my last hope.

Thanks for having tried to help.

Regards,

Keith

646
Warwickshire / Re: Moseley War Memorial
« on: Monday 04 October 10 16:11 BST (UK)  »
Scobie,

You were right. There is a memorial to the WW1 dead of Moseley close to the lych gate at St Mary's Church. The fallen are listed alphabetically according to their year of death. Unfortunately Stephen Hills isn't among them. However, having now realised that he lived in Alcester St and not, as I had originally misread your message, Alcester Road, which runs through Moseley, it is more likely that he would be remembered on a memorial closer to the city.

Again I shall have to make enquiries as to where any such memorial might be but I'll see what I can do.

Regards,

Keith

647
Warwickshire / Re: Frank Greening - murderer
« on: Monday 04 October 10 14:14 BST (UK)  »
Pete,

Like you, I thought an approach through the girlfriend might help but she is proving just as elusive as Greening.

I am merely trying to determine whether he was a member of a family which married into my my maternal ancestral family in Birmingham (about which I can find equally little) but it's as though he is only traceable through his various incarcerations. Neither he nor the girlfriend appear on any family tree I have found.

I assume that the murder would have taken place within say the two years before his death. This would allow for capture, trial, sentence and the automatic appeal which would have preceded execution.

Keith


648
Warwickshire / Re: Frank Greening - murderer
« on: Monday 04 October 10 13:56 BST (UK)  »
Again, no, nor when, on either occasion.

The only Frank Greening births recorded on GRO between 1875 and 1880  were Frank Harry J, Weymouth, March 1879 (5a 324) and Frank, Cheltenham, Sep 1879 (6a 419).

Looks like a trip to the library to see what the papers of the day can tell me.

Keith

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