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Messages - hdw

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28
Roxburghshire / Re: How to get more on Barbary/Barbara Oliver?
« on: Wednesday 08 February 23 14:11 GMT (UK)  »
I've just posted the 1808 marriage entry from Scotlandspeople. Middle of the page. Other Olivers are mentioned on the page.

Harry

29
Roxburghshire / Re: How to get more on Barbary/Barbara Oliver?
« on: Wednesday 08 February 23 14:09 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: ColC on Saturday 10 July 21 10:53 BST (UK)
I note the 1780 marriage on family search, sadly it is not on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk as far as I can see.The birth of their first child is on SP but not the others?

As mentioned there is another birth/baptism on SP, 4 miles from Southdean. There were 6 other children in the family.

BARBARA OLIVER      ADAM OLIVER/BETTY FAMILTON    18/01/1781   Jedburgh

Colin


30
Roxburghshire / Re: How to get more on Barbary/Barbara Oliver?
« on: Wednesday 08 February 23 13:36 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: trekcuber on Wednesday 08 February 23 11:43 GMT (UK)
I have, Frank has so much good information! Unfortunately it is a one name study, which does not extend to the Oliver’s. Thank you for mentioning it though!

See https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Oliver_Surname_on_the_Scottish_Borde.html?id=bQQxMQAACAAJ&redir_esc=y

Colonel Winston H. Oliver was an acknowledged authority on the Oliver surname in the Borders. He lived at Blainslie, which is near Galashiels though in the parish of Melrose.

Harry

31
The Common Room / Re: Beggars Benison - An Anstruther Fife Sex Club for Thinking Men?
« on: Monday 16 January 23 20:58 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Annbee. We've corresponded in the past about your Colin Fowler on the Fife thread. The Beggar's Benison is well known and has been extensively written about, most notably in 2001 by David Stevenson, emeritus professor in Scottish History at St. Andrews University. His book is entitled "The Beggar's Benison. Sex Clubs of Enlightenment Scotland and their Rituals", published by the Tuckwell Press.

It's also extensively covered in Stephanie Stevenson's "Anstruther", published by John Donald Ltd.

The Benison had branches in Edinburgh, Glasgow and St. Petersburg. King George IV was a member although I doubt if he ever attended. The sexual side of things (masturbation, voyeurism) is probably what most strikes us nowadays, but at least as important was the freedom members felt to express dangerous political opinions, knowing they were among friends. Clubs like the Benison were a product of the Enlightenment and a reaction against political and social reaction.

The Hell-Fire Club of Sir Francis Dashwood in the caves at West Wycombe in Buckinghamshire was another manifestation of the same thing.

James Lumsdaine was certainly a leading light in the Benison but I haven't seen any proof that they met at Innergellie. Originally (from 1732) they met in the partly ruined Dreel Castle near the shore at Anstruther, but when it became too ruinous they met at an inn in the Back-gait and then at Robertson's Hotel. I'm quoting from Stevenson's book. Some of the most respectable local worthies, like clergymen and town clerks, as well as landed gentry, were members, but when Victorian respectability came in their descendants were mortified by any evidence of their ancestors' participation and it's not unknown for various paraphernalia like certificates of membership to be found years later concealed behind layers of wallpaper!

Harry

32
Scotland / Re: Scottish Naming Conventions
« on: Sunday 15 January 23 14:01 GMT (UK)  »
In my experience the so-called conventional naming pattern was most slavishly followed in the fishing villages of the East Neuk of Fife. I even know of a man who was christened Martin Martin - Martin Gardner Martin to be exact - because the family surname was Martin, but his mother was the daughter of a Martin Gardner, and this chap was a 2nd son, so he was called after his mother's father.

Having said that, I have found that my agricultural ancestors were more likely to innovate with naming their children, and sometimes a child could be called after the employer or his wife, so you get a labourer's daughter with a fancy name like Amelia or Penelope.

If a 1st child was illegitimate, it would be called after the father or mother rather than a grandparent. Often it would be the same name as the grandparent had, of course, but if the grandfather or grandmother had a different first name, that would be used for the first legitimate child. Also, when Victorian respectability came in, it became fashionable to call a child after the minister or his wife, or even the local GP.

Harry

33
Dumfriesshire / Re: Catholic Apostolic Church (Irvingites)
« on: Wednesday 28 December 22 11:18 GMT (UK)  »
In Edinburgh the Catholic Apostolic church was represented by the Mansfield Traquair church, famous for its murals by the artist Phoebe Traquair.

https://www.mansfieldtraquair.co.uk/history/

https://www.mansfieldtraquair.org.uk/

I know that some distant relatives of mine worshipped there in the late 19th century.

Harry

34
Fife / Re: William Scott - Sailor
« on: Thursday 22 December 22 21:13 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: nepean on Tuesday 20 December 22 17:16 GMT (UK)


Re the marriage record for Ann Anderson in Canongate in 1796 in Edinburgh. Yes I too had seen the use of Denoonie and with the agreement of HDWatson had settled on Dunino. But the big problem with this description was that there was no Andrew Anderson, teacher, there at that time. I searched microfilm of all of the surrounding parish records but the only teacher that I found identified was John Anderson, spouse of Janet Pratt,  who had a son Andrew, whose birth was recorded in both Dunino and Kilrenny in 1761, Andrew Anderson was irregularly married in Edinburgh in 1783. Andrew was the s/o John Anderson, teacher in Dunino, and Janet Pratt. John Anderson and Janet Pratt had 5 children and the youngest was Ann Anderson, b Sept 1771 in Dunino.... at least 4 of the 5 children had births recorded in Dunino. Andrew and a sister Wightman were also married in Edinburgh despite a connection to Kilrenny and Dunino.  In Jan 1774 the Dunino opr reported the death of John Anderson, schoolmaster in Dunino. So Ann Anderson was about 2 1/2 when her father died. Did John's eldest child Andrew, b 1761,  take over the care of the 4 youngest children and become the father-figure? Andrew was irregularly married in Edinburgh. Does anyone have an occupation for Andrew Anderson, b 1761?

I'm getting well and truly confused now. Ann Anderson who married James Brown in 1796 was born in 1779 at Kingsbarns to Andrew Anderson and Mary Wilson, or so we seem to think. Andrew and Mary were married in 1770 at Kingsbarns, the man in St. Andrews parish and the woman in this parish. So who is the Andrew Anderson irregularly married in Edinburgh in 1783? I can't find a record of that marriage, although that's not too surprising.

Harry

35
Fife / Re: William Scott - Sailor
« on: Thursday 22 December 22 20:42 GMT (UK)  »
Like a lot of people in this country at the moment I am waiting for delivery of several items I ordered online, hopefully in time for Christmas (hope is fading). One of them is a reading lamp from a firm founded and owned by one Alex. Pratt OBE. He says on Wiki that he is from a Services background in a mining family, doesn't say whereabouts in the UK.

As for Vilent/Vilant, the surname was common in St. Andrews and Kingsbarns, acc. to Scotlandspeople. Our local historian George Gourlay, in his chapter about the seizure of the Danish fleet in 1807 in "Our Old Neighbours", mentions drill-master Vilant drilling the Volunteers in the fish yard in Anstruther in that year. They were naval reservists, and were called up for that controversial pre-emptive strike to stop the Danish fleet falling into the hands of Napoleon.

Harry

36
Fife / Re: William Scott - Sailor
« on: Thursday 22 December 22 09:53 GMT (UK)  »
"Ann Anderson and Andrew Anderson were children of Archibald Pratt and Jean Vilent."

I think you mean grandchildren.

Harry

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