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Yes I take your point thank you that he might have not been his brother.

I dont think I can go any further with the other witness, Eliza Smith as it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.  I could check marriages between Horton and Smith and vice versa and also Swinnerton and Smith and vice versa but I doubt that will be fruitful.

Thanks I will ring them when they are next open.

I dont think that the FindMyPast entry is relevant as he was not born in county in the 1841 census.  There are a few possibilities on Familysearch which I will look into but I need to find a brother William to a John born abt 1811 +/- 5 years ...

Hi Margp

Yes I have come to learn that its a very common name and sometimes is known as Orton too.

My gut feeling says that he came from Staffordshire having looked at loads of Horton/Orton families.

I haven't actually seen the Parish Register entry as it was kindly provided to me from a fellow RC from a CD they had and they did not mention a parish, just the witness names of William Horton and Eliza Smith and that the bride and groom signed with a X.

Further down the line in my tree there is another Orton from Birmingham who is stated as "nephew" to the Head of household.  The wife's maiden name was Horton, Maria Horton, John Horton's daughter.

I would be really interested to see the original PR but Birmingham Archives are closed.  I am also not well enough to travel upto Birmingham at the moment.  I wondered whether the copy on the LDS microfilm would shed any further light?

Thanks in anticipation ...

Ive seen from Familysearch that Mary Jane Baldock was buried on 8 Sept 1876.  Presumably either buried in an unmarked grave or a lost stone.

She was the widow of Oliver Baldock.