RootsChat.Com

I've just looked at ancestry.com, and there's free access from 1st to 3rd November.

Really free - you don't have to give them your credit card number

I'm really stuck now, having been looking for an Archibald Douglas in Derry for a few years with little success. Hoping someone might have a suggestion.

Archibald Douglas and Margaret Jane Wray had a son, William John Douglas, born on 14th April 1871 in Rosemount, Derry city.

I haven't found any record for their wedding. It's not in the LDS Vital Records CDs.
On the birth certificate the mother is listed as Margaret Jane Douglas, formerly Wray. I suppose that doesn't necessarily prove they were married?
Archibald Douglas is listed as a labourer. I'm assuming he was alive at the time of birth if it doesn't say deceased?

The birth was not registered until the 4th of May, and was registered by the mother.

If they did marry, the Church of Ireland is a strong possibility. Her brother, Samuel Wray, married in St. Columb's Cathedral (Templemore), Derry, in 1865 (Margaret Jane Wray was a witness).


I've just paid for a search by genfindit.com for a death certificate for Archibald Douglas, in Ireland, 1870-1872. There was only one, an Archibald Douglass, died in Armagh in 1870, but it wasn't him (that guy was a farmer and a widower).

I'm assuming Archibald was dead by December 5th, 1872, since Margaret Jane Wray married William John McCarthy at St Columba’s, Long Tower Roman Catholic Chapel, Derry city on that day. Unfortunately, this marriage was not recorded in the civil records, despite this being a legal requirement. I used irishgenealogy.ie to get the record, and they wrote that 7 marriages between 25 November 1872 and 30 December 1872 at the Long Tower chapel were not recorded in the civil marriage registers.

I had been wondering if they had somehow persuaded the priest to not forward the records, because of possible disapproval by the bride's parents at this mixed marriage. But maybe she wanted it kept quiet because she knew her husband was still alive? Anyway, the chapel records provide very little information.

I'm struck by the fact that her first son was called William John Douglas, and that she married a William John McCarthy the next year. I suppose being married (if she was) to Archibald Douglas, he would automatically be registered as the father, even if it was obvious he was not. In which case, I'm not really a Douglas...

Margaret Jane later moved to Scotland, and in 1884 married again as a widow, to a John Henry, born in Ireland.  This time it was a Church of Scotland wedding.


Margaret Jane Wray was born anywhere between 1843 and 1851, since her age on census and marriage/death certificates fluctuates wildly.

On Margaret Jane's death certificate (in Port Glasgow, Scotland, in 1927), she is listed as:
...............
Married to:
1) William John McCarthy,
   soldier
2) James Henry,
   iron blower
.............

But Archibald Douglas is not listed. Maybe there wasn't room on the page, or maybe her stepson William Henry who reported her death didn't know about him.

When William John Douglas got married, in 1901, in Tynemouth, England, he listed his father as being a "teacher of music". Maybe he was just trying to impress his wife, rather than have a labourer as a father?

So, my question is, has anyone any ideas as to where I should look now? I haven't found any likely death records for Archibald Douglas in Scotland or England, and it seems he didn't die in Ireland.  Finding a marriage record for Archibald Douglas and Margaret Jane Wray would be a big help, but I've had no luck there.

There's lille point at this stage searching for a birth record for Archibald Douglas, Griffiths valuation or anything like that, as I know so little about him, I wouldn't recognise him if I found him.

So, any ideas?

Anyone know what a Farm Griever is? "Farm Grievers of 150 acres" as the job title in the 1881 Census for Uphall, West Lothian, for Alexander Thomson, aged 49.

In 1871 he was a forester (the house was used as a saw-mill, I have found out).  On his widow's death cert. in 1917, he was a farmer. His father was a "Farmer of 115 acres emp. 6 Lab" in 1851, and Alexander's older brother inherited that.

Could a griever be some sort of specialist ag. lab? Or someone who farmed, but didn't own the land? He is listed as Farm Grievers - could that be referring to Alexander and his wife Isabella?

Does anyone know if the Royal Irish Constabulary indexes are complete (more or less)? I'm looking for a Samuel Alexander Wray, who was a 'Sergeant of Police'. (he was also a journeyman tailor). Searching Ancestry.com's RIC index, the only one I find is Name:     WRAY, SAMUEL Birth Date/Age:    19 Birthplace:    Londonderry Marriage or Comments:    Y Enlisted:    1870

This may well be a relative, since my Samuel Wray is also from Derry, but born probably around 1820 or earlier (his wife Rebecca Steen was born between 1821 and 1826, probably, two of their children were born in 1840 and 1846).
He died sometime before 1882.

I understand that you couldn't join the RIC if you were married, but could get permission to marry after some years of service.

Were there other police forces in Ireland he could have been a sergeant in (I know the Dublin force was seperate, but I have not reason to believe he was there - all the rest of the family were in the city of Derry). Revenue collectors, maybe?

I'd be very interested in any suggestions as to where I might look. Or are the RIC records just incomplete?