Author Topic: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?  (Read 140465 times)

Offline Caroline_d

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #189 on: Monday 28 November 05 23:06 GMT (UK) »
Bill,  will try a few other avenue's first (but am running out of them fast!).  Going to try the RAF sites etc and see what happens.

Anges Weild - Annan - married William Blenkinsop - Annan
Jane Scott, Roxborough who married William Hope (children, Wilhelmina Amelia, Horatio Nelson Trafalga Hope!) 
James Blenkinsop (born Dumfries)
James Blenkinsop (born Lancashire)
Wilhelmina Blenkisop (born Surrey) married Arthur Price (Wales)
Henry Reginald Price (Brecon, South Wales)
Evans (Coelbren, Wales)

Offline Caroline_d

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #190 on: Wednesday 30 November 05 21:53 GMT (UK) »
Have been checking a few sites regarding uniforms etc.  I've found a number of RCAF members who were stationed in the UK and there is no sign of "Canada" on their uniforms above the shoulder badge.

The main source for information is McGill's where they have a site for past students and a number of young men in uniforms who were in the RCAF have the same badge as our guy. 

I don't think it's appropriate to name the men here but the site has information. 

Now I'm even more confused!

Caroline
Anges Weild - Annan - married William Blenkinsop - Annan
Jane Scott, Roxborough who married William Hope (children, Wilhelmina Amelia, Horatio Nelson Trafalga Hope!) 
James Blenkinsop (born Dumfries)
James Blenkinsop (born Lancashire)
Wilhelmina Blenkisop (born Surrey) married Arthur Price (Wales)
Henry Reginald Price (Brecon, South Wales)
Evans (Coelbren, Wales)

Offline Damien

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #191 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 19:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Does anyone know who the two men are standing either side of  Ernest Burke in the photo of the three crew members?because I'm pretty convinced the one on his left is the same man on his left in the larger crew photo.
My email address no longer works sorry

Offline Caroline_d

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #192 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 22:16 GMT (UK) »
I've had confirmation that the photograph is not William Allison and doesn't  appear to be a family member. 

William Allison has been identified by his nephew as third from the right

Thanks to everyone at McGills for your help.

Anges Weild - Annan - married William Blenkinsop - Annan
Jane Scott, Roxborough who married William Hope (children, Wilhelmina Amelia, Horatio Nelson Trafalga Hope!) 
James Blenkinsop (born Dumfries)
James Blenkinsop (born Lancashire)
Wilhelmina Blenkisop (born Surrey) married Arthur Price (Wales)
Henry Reginald Price (Brecon, South Wales)
Evans (Coelbren, Wales)


Offline Bill Green

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #193 on: Wednesday 07 December 05 13:01 GMT (UK) »
Sorry Caroline, I was under the impression that third from the left was identified as Burke?
Tranquilizers are just to your left love! :)
                                                                 Bill.
Sorry my email address is not working.
Hon. Chair, Bomber Command Association, Fenland Branch.

Offline Caroline_d

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #194 on: Wednesday 07 December 05 18:01 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Bill, I've  now amended.
Anges Weild - Annan - married William Blenkinsop - Annan
Jane Scott, Roxborough who married William Hope (children, Wilhelmina Amelia, Horatio Nelson Trafalga Hope!) 
James Blenkinsop (born Dumfries)
James Blenkinsop (born Lancashire)
Wilhelmina Blenkisop (born Surrey) married Arthur Price (Wales)
Henry Reginald Price (Brecon, South Wales)
Evans (Coelbren, Wales)

Offline MJP

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #195 on: Wednesday 07 December 05 20:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi all! 

Just wanted to let you know that I am returned from my global wanderings and am heading off for the Archives right this very minute.  Just thought I should check in here for new info first.  I'm armed with all the photos that have been posted so far and all identifications and speculations. 

I'm hoping at least for photos that will confirm everyone's deductions about the identities from the crew photo, and hopefully some later next-of-kin info that could help us track down living relatives. (perhaps from pension records?? Would their families have received long-term pensions for them, or was that only for widows??)  An identification of the original mystery photo will, I fear, be a long shot, unless the very same photo is found in one of the files.  But you never know! 

I'll report back ASAP...

Martha
Information given in census transcriptions is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Eagle (Yorkshire), Prior (Berkshire), Buckland (Nottinghamshire),
Short (Devon), Sinclair (Caithness, Scotland), Patterson (Co. Tyrone, Ireland)

Offline MJP

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #196 on: Thursday 08 December 05 03:52 GMT (UK) »
So... back from the Archives.  I've found a few more pieces for the puzzle. 

I must confess I didn't look in detail at the movement records of each of them, to see if they were always together, in training etc..  I was focused mainly on looking for photos and for next of kin addresses.  The files are quite extensive, so it took me a few hours to just do that. 

Anyway, I have unfortunately not been able to identify our mystery boy, but he seems to bear a striking resemblence to Villeneuve's ID photo in his file.  He could be a younger brother, possibly dressed up in the uniform for fun.  (Someone earlier said it looks like the jacket is too big for him.) I don't think it is an early photo of our Villeneuve though - he was already 20 when he enlisted and the photo was taken shortly after. 

The good news is that the deductions made about the identities of the crew are correct.  The order, from left to right, is Hamel, Groulx, Burke, Allison, DuSablon, and Villeneuve.   

Hamel:  his file includes the proceedings of the official inquiry into the crash.  It seems they lost their stafboard engine, he tried to make an emergency landing but flew through a rain cloud and hit the terraced area on the side of a mountain.  Apparently there was also some sort of controversy or mix up about the signals he sent out once they were in trouble.  The inquiry found him to be "mainly responsible" for the crash, due to "bad captaincy in his signals procedure in an emergency" and "possible lack of confidence in flying on instruments alone".  Despite this verdict, he did receive a posthumous promotion to Pilot Officer (?), so I don't really get that.  Also, him amd the crew are all listed as "pupils", so I guess they were still in training. 

Before enlisting he was a clerk at the Montreal Stock Exchange, then a time keeper at Foundation Co. of Canada, then an accountant with the T. Eaton Co. in Halifax Nova Scotia (until recently, one of Canada's oldest departent stores).  He had 5 siblings - Georges (a Gunner), Louis, Roger, Gertrude and Lucile. 

His father died in 1940.  His mother seems to have had several high-up jobs, judging by the letterhead on the various letters in the file: Wartime Prices and Trade Board, Director of the Quebec Office of the Health League of Canada, etc.  Interestingly, there was also an letter of inquiry sent to the Canadian Embassy in London on behalf of Mrs. Hamel from Miss Vera Grenfell, lady-in-wainting to Princess Alice, asking for particulars on Hamel's death, since info was slow in coming through official channels.  I have no idea what the connection there was.

The most recent address in the file is for his mother in 1945. 

Groulx: Before enlisting he was a plumbers assistant.  There are 1945 addresses for his mother, Mrs. Alexandrine Groulx, and his sister, Mrs. Gaston Desmarais.  There was also a request in 1977 for his death certificate from a Mrs. Raymond Chausse, with an address in Trois Rivieres, Quebec, but there is no indcation of what her relationship is to him.  His mother was his dependent and was receiving a pension for him.

Burke:  I won't report everything here, since contact has already been made with the family.  It would be nice to let them know what is in the file though and how to get copies because I'm sure they would find it interesting.  I will PM Janice with some details and hopefully she can forward it to the Burkes. 

Allison: unfortunately the Archives forgot to bring his file out for me, but luckily we already have quite a bit of info on him. 

DuSablon: Before enlistment he was an usher at the Capital Theatre in Montreal, and then a clerk at the post office.  His father was a conductor for Canadian Pacific Railway.  He liked making model aircraft.  Amongst his personal effects returned to his family was a mouth organ, a photo album, and a locket.  He had to interrupt his training in order to go for intensive English lessons.   He had siblings Richard, Jean, Jacques, Raymonde and Helene.  In 1985, his sister Raymonde Bibeau made a request for info, so there is an address for her at that time.

Villeneuve:  He was born in Saskatchewan in 1922, but lived in Quebec.  His father was a barber, and his mother was reported as deceased in 1923 (which doesn't fit with the idea of him being the half brother of the Senator.)  He was trained in judo.  He worked as a cashier at Steinberg's Groceteria in Montreal, then as a Tool Setter at Defense Industries Ltd., an ammunitions factory.  Strangely, his file also contained a sheet of instructions for knitting men's cable socks!  Amongst his personal effects was a trigonometry text book.  He had brothers Henry and Arthur and sisters Laurencia and Claire.  The most recent address is for his father in 1951. 

Whew!  I think that's it.  I'm going to do a bit of searching based on the addresses I have, but I'm not sure that I will find anything, as most of them are not recent enough.  But I'll let you know what I find....

Martha
Information given in census transcriptions is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Eagle (Yorkshire), Prior (Berkshire), Buckland (Nottinghamshire),
Short (Devon), Sinclair (Caithness, Scotland), Patterson (Co. Tyrone, Ireland)

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« Reply #197 on: Thursday 08 December 05 04:35 GMT (UK) »


Martha!!

What a wonderful job you have done!! Thank you for sharing that with us !

Annie  :) :) :)
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