Need a miracle i think?? LOL

[Born~N~Bred]

Hi @ all, i just wandered into the site and i`m praying someone can give me a little push in the right direction. I`m a total novice at this family history so be gentle with me LOL ... Ok dilemma = I am trying to solve a mystery that no one in the family seem`s to know about. My great grandad was born 1901 and i did get that much confirmed from the birth index, Hmmm?? and then my grandmother mentioned there had been some confusion as to which children belonged to which family after a family tragedy occured.... The problem i have is discovering who my grandfather`s real father was? Both families resided in the same street at the same time from what i can see on the earlier census, then one family disappear`s LOL how can i find out which family my grandfather belonged to??? Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated as i am rapidly running out of idea`s.. especially now that the parent`s don`t appear on the birth certificate???
If anyone can help my grandfather was John William Hook,
born september 1901,
and from what i`m lead to believe resided at an address in Water Street (once Swan Street) in Atherton, Lancashire.

[Nicky]

Hi
Seems to be a difficult one, I presume you have a copy of the original birth certificate, that should give you parents names,another idea would be his marriage certificate although if he was adopted into a family he may of course give his adopted fathers name.
Nicky

[Born~N~Bred]

Hi Nicky, Hmmm! somehow i don`t think it would help much?? .. You see both families had the same surname as my g/g grandfather seem`s to of arrived in town at the same time as.. (what i`m presuming is his brother? due to my grandmother speaking of her cousin`s) .. we do have the orginal b/certificate but no parent`s listed? ... Both brother`s seem to of arrived in town for the mining work, on the census it state`s that they came from the gloustershire area, a place named marshfield? i think?? ... My great grandfather also became a miner and was tragically killed himself in 1954 while working. I tried to contact the coal mine association`s i have found on my travel`s around the net, in the hope that perhap`s they held detail`s that may of been useful... but they don`t seem to have any detail`s other than a list of name`s?. *totally baffled* 

[rosanne]

Maybe you should skip this generation for now and go back to their father etc, Perhaps be digging elsewhere new light may be shed in this direction. I have found that changing tack or going off on another branch often give me fresh angles and ideas.
Rosanne

[Sasha]

Hi,

Just a thought - do you have the 'short' version of the birth certificate or the 'full' version?

A short version will only give the child's name, to get the parents names you need the full version.

Sasha. 

[Boongie Pam]

Newspaper?  You seem to know a bit about the "family tragedy".  Did it make the papers or could there be obituries?  Just an idea.

Pam
 

[peterbennett]

Hi
I have had a look at the relevant census pages for your Hook family and may have the answer for you. It seems that your original family headed by Isaac moved from The Forest of Dean Gloucester to Atherton Lancashire between 1876 and 1881, another family headed by a William Hook from Marshfield who arrived at about the same time only ever appeered on the 1881 census.
      By 1891 there were 3 families of Hooks in Atherton, 1 headed by the father Isaac, the other 2 by the sons Thomas and John. Both Thomas and John had amongst others, children named John both born around 1889, BOTH Johns are alive in 1901 so it would not seem logical for either of them to name another child John. The only other married sons at the 1901 census were Isaac and Fred, of these only Isaac lived on Water Street. So it would seem logical that if your John William Hook was born and lived in Water street that Isaac was the father.The birth certificate should have the name on it of the person registering the birth of the child this need not be the mother or father.
    If you would like me to post the census details please ask
I have posted the census details below and ammended my mistake


regards

peterbennett

[Born~N~Bred]

 Hi and a HUGE thankyou to all of you for your help and suggestion`s, i`m ever grateful to all of you, this confusion was driving me nuts.
 At the moment the orginal birth certificate for John William is not in my posession but i`m hoping to have it back from a colliery research association soon, they requested it from my grandmother who instead of photocopying, sent the original document. 
 Peter thankyou so much for taking the time to look this up for me, this is the first time i`ve tried to research my family history and was hitting desperation with these families. Being a novice i was probably the cause of this by assuming that i was dealing with two brother`s when they arrived together doh!! ... I think i`ve been focused on the William of Marshfield and so will now try a different approach.
 I did pay to see the 1901 census though a week or two ago, i wonder if you would be so kind as to check one more thing for me please?
 When i went viewing the 1901 census i too got Fred married and head of household, however the address i got was different to your`s? I wondered if you could confirm that i am on the right track and with the correct family this time. The Fred Hook i got was married to Mary Ann, however the address i have for that family is an house on Cannon Street?? ... The Hook i found in Water Street was an Isaac Hook in a house with his inlaw`s who i was assuming was probably the Issac Hook who joined the Hook household on Swan Street in the 1891 census??  the household is-

John Wilson 52 Head

Jane Wilson 51 Wife

William Wilson 22 Son

Betsy E Hook 25 Daughter

Isaac Hook 25 Son in law

Eliza Hook 7 G/daughter

Emily Hook 5 G/daughter

Isaac Hook 3 G/son

Andrew Hook 1 G/son 

 I would imagine this family to be more probable as the parent`s as we do have the Wilson`s in our family somewhere. Could you check that this family is actually on Water Street for me?? .. Could it be i`m reading the census incorrectly or is it just the town of Atherton that`s moving there street`s about to make this difficult?? *LOL*

 Thank`s again to everyone for the help and idea`s you`ve provided, this family history is sooooooooooooo addictive and happy hunting to you all.   

[peterbennett]

Hi
  Here are the details from the census.

1881 census

Name  Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
 Isaac HOOK   Head   M   Male   48   Gloucester, England   Coal Miner    
 Charlotte HOOK   Wife   M   Female   47   Gloucester, England        
 John HOOK   Son   U   Male   18   Gloucester, England   Coal Miner    
 Thomas HOOK   Son   U   Male   15   Gloucester, England   Coal Miner    
 Fred HOOK   Son   U   Male   13   Gloucester, England   Scholar    
 Henry HOOK   Son      Male   10   Gloucester, England   Scholar    
 Elizabeth HOOK   Dau      Female   6   Gloucester, England   Scholar    

Source Information:
  Dwelling   2 Swan Street
  Census Place Atherton, Lancashire, England
  Family History Library Film   1341911
  Public Records Office Reference   RG11
  Piece / Folio   3809 / 59
  Page Number   37

1891 census

Name Age in 1891 Birthplace Relationship to head-of-house Civil parish County
 
Hook, Isaac 54 Gloucestershire Head  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Charlotte 55 Gloucestershire Wife  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Isaac 18 Gloucestershire Son  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Elizabeth 16 Gloucestershire Daughter  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Frederick 21 Gloucestershire Son  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Harry 5 Gloucestershire Grandson  Atherton  Lancashire  

10 Swann Street
Source information:    RG12/3090
Registration district:    Leigh  
Sub registration district:    Atherton  
ED, institution, or vessel:    7  
Folio:    72  
Page:    50

1891 census

Hook, Thomas 25 Forest of dean, Gloucestershire Head  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Betsy 25 Tyldesley, Lancashire Wife  Atherton  Lancashire
Hook, Sarah 6 Atherton, Lancashire Daughter  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Charlotte 5 Atherton, Lancashire Daughter  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, John 2 Atherton, Lancashire Son  Atherton  Lancashire  
Clynes, Edward 19 Tyldesley, Lancashire Boarder  Atherton  Lancashire  

16 Swann Street
Source information:    RG12/3090
Registration district:    Leigh  
Sub registration district:    Atherton  
ED, institution, or vessel:    7  
Folio:    72  
Page:    50

1891 census

Name Age in 1891 Birthplace Relationship to head-of-house Civil parish County

Lancashire  
Hook, John 26 Forest dean, Gloucestershire Head  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Mary 28 Dudley, Staffordshire Wife  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Martha 5 Atherton, Lancashire Daughter  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, John 3 Atherton, Lancashire Son  Atherton  Lancashire  
Hook, Phoebe 1 Atherton, Lancashire Daughter  Atherton  Lancashire    
Hook, Isaac 3 Day Atherton, Lancashire Son  Atherton  

12 Sanderson Street
Source information:    RG12/3090
Registration district:    Leigh  
Sub registration district:    Atherton  
ED, institution, or vessel:    9  
Folio:    137  
Page:    39

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