Double Trouble

[rolnora]

Can any clear thinking, clear sighted rootschat member please help me with this brickwall.
I'm trying to research  my father's maternal line. his mother was a Mary Bowden and on her birth certificate her parents are Joseph Bowden and Mary Harrison, so far so good, find Joseph and Mary's marriage. The problem is that  there's two of them. I sent for  both certificates and on one of them Joseph Bowden married Mary Harrison in October 1870 at St Mary's Church, Stockport and on the other Joseph Bowden married Mary Ann Harrison June 1870 at Heaton Norris. They are both on the 1871 census but no children as yet. On the 1881 census the children are there including my grandmother and her mother's  place of birth is down as Leeds Yorkshire which would tie in with the Mary Ann but the birth certificate only say's Mary and on all the other census Stockport is her place of birth. There are no clues that I can see on the certificates, the ages on both are about right and I'm really baffled as where to go from here.
Any tips of any kind would be really helpful.
Cheers,
Pat.
 

[Arranroots]

Hi Pat!

What a dilemma!

How about tracing the witnesses on the marriage certs?  It could be that you can find these folk in earlier censuses and connect them to the witnesses.

kind regards, Arranroots 

[rolnora]

Hi Arranroots,
Thanks for the reply.
I have tried the witnesses and nothing is coming together, it could still be either one but thanks anyway,
Regards,
Pat.

[Arranroots]

What about the fathers' names on the certs?  Are both women the same age?

i hate to give up!

[rolnora]

Hello again,
On one of the certs age for both Joseph and Mary is given as "of full age" and on the other one Joseph is 21 and Mary 20.
Whichever pair of them it is they didn't help matters by only having daughters, 5 of them. So the fathers names couldn't be handed down and as both sets of mothers are Mary (I'm beginning to hate that name) thats no help either. Ready to give up yet?
Pat.

[Arranroots]

I might have to sleep on it! 

Have you traced both women on earlier censuses?  What about father's occupations?

Back in the morning!

A 

[rolnora]

Hope you slept well,
I've traced  them back to 1851,
Mary Ann was called Nancy on one of the census, which I believe was at that time a pet name for Ann, Mary Ann's father was named Titus and the lord only knows where that name originated from, mother, yes it was Mary. Titus was a hatter and the Joseph belonging to Mary Ann, a carder.
On the other one, Mary's father was Henry a collier, I'm having trouble finding him and I've got an awful feeling that his wife will be named Mary.Joseph and his dad John, both labourers and Joseph's mum, Guess?
My Joseph, whichever one he is had quite a few occupations, going from labourer to working in the cotton mill  then slater and on the marriage cert of his youngest daughter a master slater.
Is it any wonder I'm confused?
Regards, Pat

[Arranroots]

Now then, what about letting us have the census info (a representative census!) for Henry & see if we can find him?

I am thinking in terms of identifying locations.  Did the families stay put and did the Marys marry in the area in which they lived, that sort of thing.

Have you identified baptisms for them both?  If you can find 2 Marys with one definitely younger than another?  We are into clutching at straws territory here, but worth trying.  If not the Marys, possibly one of the siblings would give an indication of an area.  I confess I am not familiar with the geography, but am willing to get my atlas out!

I wonder if your Joseph would have had to be apprenticed to a slater?  Maybe there are records of that?

Finally, I assume you have both families on all censuses post 1871 - in case in-laws come to stay?  Also is the age-difference between both couples a small one?  You say 21/20 for one couple - is the other couple a similar age, as "full age" can mean anything over 21.  I am sure you have considered this.

Let me know how we can help! (Almost festive all this Joseph & Mary stuff!) 

Arranroots

[Arranroots]

Or...

What about the addresses on the marriage certs?  any evidence of who lived there in 1871/ 1881?

Is Nancy's mother in the workhouse in 1871?