Author Topic: Birth certificate details  (Read 1620 times)

Offline gaygirl

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Birth certificate details
« on: Monday 05 December 05 23:23 GMT (UK) »
I am searching for a birth for Robert Gibson 1848/49.Found one I THINK may be the right one.
Can I find out the name of the father any other way than getting the birth certificate.
He was registered Sept. Quarter 1849 St George.East. London County.
If I order a certificate can I stipulate that I only want it if the fathers name is John or Methven????
Can anyone answer his query - I'm sure someone can :)
Reseraching - Gibson Flannagan Chiverton Ellwood Limbrick Hobbs Baldock Law Payne Sanders Cartwright Beard Tanner Hall

Offline outlaw

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 589
    • View Profile
Re: Birth certificate details
« Reply #1 on: Monday 05 December 05 23:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
Have you tried finding the family in 1851?
paula

Offline angi0

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,465
    • View Profile
Re: Birth certificate details
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 00:08 GMT (UK) »
I can verify that if you send for a birth and you state the father's known name if this does not match they will not send the certificate

There is an entry for  a robert gibson aged 1 in the 1851 cenus but I don't think it will help his mother is head as his father is a seaman

1851 UK census
HO107/1548 folio 114 page 13
Low cornwall street
Mary Gibson Head Age 25 Married Seamans wife B Middlesex st george in the east
Thomas son age 3 b middlesex st  george in the east
Robert son age 1 b middlesex st george in the east

Angie
Riley- Lancashire Blackburn
Regan
Birtwistle - Lancashire back to 1160
Kilkenny - County May0
Nuttall -Lancashire
Smethurst Lancashire
Sparnon- Cornwall and Dalton in Furness
Whiteside dalton in furness
crossley lancashire

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline gaygirl

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: Birth certificate details
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 00:20 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for those replies.
The Robert Gibson I want has stated his father as "Tailor" perhaps it should be sailor???
Perhaps I could put a search for Mary on 1861 census and see if the father appears then. That might answer some questions. I need to find Robert in 1861 but it is like a needle in a haystack to find I think.
Reseraching - Gibson Flannagan Chiverton Ellwood Limbrick Hobbs Baldock Law Payne Sanders Cartwright Beard Tanner Hall


Offline sillgen

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,523
    • View Profile
Re: Birth certificate details
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 09:06 GMT (UK) »
You are charged a proportion of the cost if they check the father's name so an 1861 look up would save money!
Andrea

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: Birth certificate details
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 09:20 GMT (UK) »
Methven is a very unusual name

FreeBMD

Gibson, Methben 1837 September Deaths Bishopsgate

1861 census

RG9 214 folio 35
3 Crown Court St Giles without Cripplegate  Middlesex  
John Gibson 39  Cripplegate, London, Head  Married Tailor
Esther Gibson 35  Lambeth Wife  Married
John Gibson 11 Cripplegate, London, Son  
Metha Gibson 7  Cripplegate, London, Son  
Samuel Gibson 4  Cripplegate, London, Son  
William Gibson 2  Cripplegate, London,  Son  

In 1851 the family was at the same address with John senior's mother as head of household Mary aged 72 a laundress born Croydon Surrey and Esther's sister aged 19 Jane Prickler/Rickler??
John and Esther's eldest son is still called John and he is living next door to his parents on the 1871 census (same address), married to Emma with daughter Esther.

Perhaps if you give us further details of the Robert Gibson you are interested in we can track him back through the censuses e.g. who he married and when/ his occupation..

Regards
Valda

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline gaygirl

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: Birth certificate details
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 12:51 GMT (UK) »
Robert Gibson born Middlesex 1848/49
Father John Methven Gibson - Tailor.
His marriage cert. in 1913 has witness William and Rebecca Gibson named.
William James Gibson b 1859 - is listed in 1861 census with parents John and Esther Gibson.
I found 1881 census William J Gibson Head. born Cripplegate age 22  Rebecca Wife. born St Lukes. Middlesex.
This ties in with the William and Rebecca Gibson witnesses to marriage.
Robert married Nora Ann Flanagan approx. 1870 and emigrated to NZ in 1874 so they will not appear on census in 1881. Nora died 1910 and he returned to England and married Ellen Welton in 1913.
 A possible marriage John Methven and Esther Rayfield were married in 1848, St George East which means they could have had Robert in 1849 but where is he in 1851/61 ???
He gives his occupation as Carpenter in 1874 when he emigrated to NZ.
This is a bit mystery and a hard one to crack.
Any ideas greatfully accepted.
Reseraching - Gibson Flannagan Chiverton Ellwood Limbrick Hobbs Baldock Law Payne Sanders Cartwright Beard Tanner Hall

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: Birth certificate details
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 21:46 GMT (UK) »
There is a possible marriage of a John Gibson, not a John Methven Gibson to an Esther Rayfield in 1848. There are 5 other women at the same volume and page reference who could equally have married this John Gibson. The 1851 census for the John Gibson and Esther has Esther's sister with them. Her surname is not easy to read but it is not Rayfield. The 1871 census also has someone in the same household with the same surname, this might be Esther's brother.

RG10 417 folio 55
3 Crown Court St Giles without Cripplegate  London 
John Gibson 50 London, Head  Married Tailor
Esther Gibson 42 London, Wife  Married tailoress
Samuel Gibson 14 Cripplegate, London, Son  Errand Boy
William Gibson 12  Cripplegate, London, Son 
Esther Gibson 9  Cripplegate, London, Daughter
Alfred Prickler? 19  Cripplegate, London,  Lodger Tailor    
Susan Fallshaw 52  London, Sister  Married Tailoress
at the same address but a separate household
John Gibson 21  London,  Head  Married packing case maker
Emma Gibson 20  London,  Wife  Married paper colourer
Esther Gibson 2mths  London, Daughter 

The William Gibson with wife Rebecca on the 1881 census was a tin and zinc packing case maker - an occupation he still had on the 1901 census.

From 1866-1883 FreeBMD has full coverage for marriages. There is no marriage of a Robert Gibson to a Nora or Norah (any surname). If the marriage took place earlier this birth could be a possibility and worth looking at.

Births June 1866
GIBSON  Methven R     E. London  1c 21

On the downside there doesn't seem to be a Robert and Nora Gibson on the 1871 census.  Could they have emigrated earlier?

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline gaygirl

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 488
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: Birth certificate details
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 06 December 05 22:58 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for all that information Valda. I appreciate all the time you have spent.
Re the date of emigration - from death certs they  both give the year 1874.  I have the ship records which show them as Robert and Ann N Gibson both aged 26  Occ. carpenter and county Middlesex.
Ann/Norah gives her fathers name as Peter Flanagan but I have never been able to find a birth entry for her either.
I presumed that he would have had his brother as witness to the marriage or could he have been a cousin??
Was Robert born before the parents were married?
I will keep up my frustrating search.
In 1899 three sisters with the surname Ellwood emigrated to NZ and went to live with the Gibsons and are even buried under the name Gibson - I wonder if there is some connection there.
The girls were named Nellie b1885,  Martha b 1886 and Frances b 1890.  They were aged 14, 13 and 9 when they emigrated - the story goes that their mother died but why would they go to NZ apparently by themselves to live with the Gibsons - surely some family connection??
Thanks again.
Reseraching - Gibson Flannagan Chiverton Ellwood Limbrick Hobbs Baldock Law Payne Sanders Cartwright Beard Tanner Hall