Author Topic: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted  (Read 2096 times)

Offline Branwen

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Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« on: Monday 12 December 05 15:54 GMT (UK) »
Hello all,  I have run into some trouble trying to sort this one out.  Any ideas?
I am trying to find out correct birth name of Harriett (married to Charles Speller), born 1857 or 1858.  We were told by a relative it was Hatchman, but cannot find proof of birth.

I have the following:
Marriage reference Harriett Hatchman - Charles Speller 1876.

death cert 1905 (does not show maiden name), age 48, died at eight houses, barkingside.
photos.
memorial card 1905, only showing name as Speller, age 48.

Census 1901 showing Harriett and Charles, with children Agnes 13, George 12, Ellen 11, James 11, Frederick Charles 9, Alice 7 and Lily 4.  This would make Agnes born about 1888.  Living at 7, eight houses, barkingside.

Birth cert Frederick Charles Speller (son of Harriett) 29 Feb 1892, showing father as Charles Speller, mother as Harriett Speller, formerly Ashman.

We know from relatives that Harriett was not living with her natural father. 

I cannot find this family on 1881 or 1891 census.  We are trying to find out if there were any children before 1888, as I have been contacted by someone who has a William Speller born 1880 to a Charles and Harriett Speller.  Years of birth for Charles and Harriett match ours.
Birth cert of William Speller shows Charles Speller as father and Harriett formerly BRAND as mother.

1861 census shows a Harriett Hatchman as stepdaughter with George Jolley and Emma (Brand).  1871 census shows Harriett Brand as stepdaughter with the above family.

HELP!

Kind regards,

Wendy
England, Essex, Berkshire, Speller, Holt, Cooper, Richardson

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« Reply #1 on: Monday 12 December 05 16:07 GMT (UK) »
1881 census : RG11/1746/11/15

Children - Florence (c1877, Barkingside), Emily (c1878, Barkingside) and William (c1879, Barkingside).

Rambler
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« Reply #2 on: Monday 12 December 05 16:33 GMT (UK) »
As I read the census info:

Harriet Hatchman/Ashman was born c1857 - mother's name Emma.  Unclear whether Emma was married unless you can find Harriet's birth cert. 

Emma then married Charles Brand and had 2 more children: Henry W (c1859) and Elizabeth J (c1864).

Charles Brand died, and Emma married George Jolley in 1876:

Marriages Sep 1866  -  Ongar 4a 132
BRAND    Emma       
JOLLEY    George   
     
NOTTAGE    Thomas        
WHITE    Maria        

However, I haven't been able to find Emma in 1851 yet.

Rambler
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« Reply #3 on: Monday 12 December 05 16:57 GMT (UK) »
Found Charles and family in 1891, though - indexed as Spillar.

RG12/1369/13/20 - 2 Eight Houses, Ilford
Charles Spellar  Head  34  Labourer  b. Fyfield, Essex
Harriet Spellar  Wife  35  b. Roothing, Essex
Emily Spellar  Dau  12  Scholar  b. Dagenham
William Spellar  Son  10  Scholar  b. Barkingside
Walter Spellar  Son  7  Scholar  b. Barkingside
Elizabeth Spellar  Dau  5  Scholar  b. Barkingside
Agnes Spellar  Dau  4  Scholar  b. Barkingside
George Spellar  Son  2  b. Barkingside
Edith Spellar  Dau  1  b. Barkingside
James Spellar  Son  1  b. Barkingside 

Rambler
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline janan

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Re: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« Reply #4 on: Monday 12 December 05 17:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi Wendy
Could this be Emma in 41 ??? She is the only Emma Hatchman in Essex and in right area :-\ Worth holding on file till you have further proof.
Jan ;)

Millers Green, Shellow Bowels

William Hatchman 40 Ag Lab
Susan do 30
Charlotte do 16
Henry do 11
Emma do 5
All born in county
HO107/328/23

ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« Reply #5 on: Monday 12 December 05 17:37 GMT (UK) »
Here's Janan's family in 1851 - recorded as Hutchman.

HO107/1771/70/40 - Millers Green, Shellow Bowells
William Hutchman  Head  53  Ag Lab  b. Nabwell, Essex
Susan Hutchman  Wife  44  b. Roxwell, Essex
Emma Hutchman  Dau  14  Sunday School  b. Barmish ???
Elizabeth Hutchman  Dau  10  Day School  b. Shellow Bowells
Jane Hutchman  Dau  7  Home  b. Shellow Bowells
John Hutchman  Son  5  Home  b. Shellow Bowells
Maryann Hutchman  Niece  4  Home  b. Willingate

Rambler
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Douglas P

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Re: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« Reply #6 on: Monday 12 December 05 21:04 GMT (UK) »
'Willingate' from Rambler's message could be Willingale as this would be near Shellow Bellows.

The 1841 census details from Jan are shown on the following web page:
http://essex1841.com/Shellow.php

Douglas.
East Kilbride:     Macaulay, Scott
Lanarkshire:      Graham, Brown, Struthers, Smith, McMillan, Napier
Dunnet:             Nicholson, Douglas
Halkirk:             Fraser, Campbell
Thurso:             Coghill, Houston
W. Lothian:       McKay
Muiravonside:   Nimmo, Robertson
Alloa:                Johnstone, Syme
Tillicoultry:         MacDonald

Offline Branwen

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Re: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 14 December 05 12:53 GMT (UK) »
Thank you and merry christmas to all!   :)

The 1891 census info was a missing link... I actually looked under Speller, Spiller, and Spellar, but not Spillar.... typical!

Now all I need is Harriett's birth cert and we're back on track.

Thanks again for all the information.  I live in Galway, Ireland, so if you have any info you need from out here, i'd be happy to do the legwork.

Wendy
England, Essex, Berkshire, Speller, Holt, Cooper, Richardson

Offline janan

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Re: Harriett Speller/Hatchman/Brand? Help wanted
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 14 December 05 12:57 GMT (UK) »
Merry Christmas Wendy :D
Let us know what it says on the birth certificate
Cheers Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge