Help with reading signature

[moscan]

I found a marriage of a James Devoy to an Isabella Brown.   

31.12.1883 in Coylton

James Devoy aged 32 son of David Devoy and Helen Rennie

Isabelle Brown aged 25 daughter of James Brown and Mary ( her maiden names looks like Cowen)


Best wishes

Mo

[grendlsmother]

Thank you all so much for your help - this could solve a three year mystery.
Pam - I made the mistake of putting "Scotland" in IGI - a fatal mistake - never assume.

However, looks like Mo has hit the jackpot.   Peter's wife was Jane (Jeannie) Brown and her parents on her marriage cert. were given as James Brown and Mary Kerr.    She was born around 1855, I guess '54 as I have never found a birth certificate (she gives three different locations for her birth and also uses completely different maiden names on her children's birth certificates - don't know why).   I was beginning to think that everything about her was a fabrication.   I am sure that this Isabella must be her sister - can't find her birth on IGI, but Scotlands People here I come - the '91 census may reveal something as well.

Did you find it on SP Mo, or have you got any Coylton records?

[ibi]

Looks like James DEVOY - but why isn't the upright of the D straight like the B?

Because it's very like a Secretary Hand capital "D" ........

See http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/content/default.asp?page=s3_1_3

It's far from uncommon to find elements of Scottish Secretary Hand, particularly in relation to capital letters, in early civil registration register entries in Scotland, - presumably because the registrar was born in the late 1700s, but this one is one of the latest such that I've seen, being in the 1890s................

ibi

[moscan]

I found it on SP

Best wishes

Mo

[JAP]

Hi grendlsmother,

Just for completeness.

From the IGI (extracted records) - possibly the parents and some siblings of James (James b ca 1851 from Mo's great find):

A David DEVOY married a Helen RENNIE, 18 Jun 1840, Stoneykirk, Wigtown, Scotland

Parents of those names had, all in Wigtown:
Alexander 1841, Stoneykirk
Samuel 1842, Stoneykirk
and
Thomas 1854, Portpatrick
Joseph 1855, Inch
George 1858, Inch
Murdoch 1860, Inch
Samuel 1862, Inch
Jane Alexander 1864, Kirkcolm

There is a website which mentions this family at:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bronwyn/devoy.htm

JAP
PS: from a thread at:
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/AYRSHIRE/2004-11/1101148310
A poster writes:
"looking for information on the devoy family, who lived in and around dalmellington and patna area, ie benquhat and burnfoothill, they were orignally from farmers in wigtonshire, they moved up to ayrshire around the middle of 18 hundreds, and worked in the coal and ironstone mines in that area.
alexander devoy"
And another poster gives the family (with another son, Robert, who - like James - isn't in the IGI) in the 1881 census:

Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details

RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.

For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information.  Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical.  Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted.  We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.

Census information is Crown Copyright

[grendlsmother]

Jap - thanks for that - I will investigate both leads, although of course its mainly the Browns I'm interested in.

Ibi - the words James Devoy, Brother--in-Law, Present, are in a completely different hand to the rest of the entry and I assumed that James had signed it personally.

I went straight onto Scotlands People last night and looked at the wedding cert.   The mother's name certainly looks like Cowan.   However, then I found Isabella's death certificate and the mother's name is given as Mary Kerr, which is spot on.   However, what is unusual is the change from the usual form in that in the parents column is says "Mary Kerr afterwards married to James Brown".   I have often suspected that Jane Brown was illegitimate as I have been unable to find her birth (even when I have searched on Kerr).  Now I suspect that Isabella was also illegitimate - she gives her birthplace as New Cumnock on the '91 census.   There is a marriage on the IGI of a James Brown and Mary Kerr in 1860, Kirkconnel by Sanquhar and two children listed for them after their marriage.     So I then searched the '61 census for New Cumnock and bingo - there they were - James 50, born Morton, DMF, James 14 born Kirkconnel, Jane 6 (the right age) born illegible (curses) but looks like LNKS at the end of the placename, and Isabella 3, born New Cumnock - no sign of Mary, perhaps she was away visiting.   She can't be deceased as James is listed as married and in any case she had children in Oct 1861 and 1864 in New Cumnock and possibly another 4 afterwards in Cambuslang which might be why Jane was confused about where she was born.

Anyway - once again I must say - can anyone read this -  Jane is the third entry.

Thank you all for your time and help.

[ibi]

.....snipped..........
Ibi - the words James Devoy, Brother--in-Law, Present, are in a completely different hand to the rest of the entry and I assumed that James had signed it personally. ....snipped

As should have been the case as the informant, with the rest in the hand of the (Asst.) Registrar.

ibi

[JAP]

Hi grendlsmother,

I read the birthplaces as:
Dumfriesshire Morton
Do Kirkconnell
Do Sanquhar
Ayrshire New Cumnock

What I've put in italics was written in afterwards in a different hand.

Jane's birthplace is certainly Dumfriesshire and seems to be Sanquhar - assuming they are just flourishes at the end of the word.

JAP

[JAP]

Hi again grendlsmother,

Do you have the 1871 census entry?  That might be helpful?

The expression you quote from Isabella's death cert i.e. 'Mary Kerr afterwards married to James Brown' is one I've come across only where the spouse (in this case it would be James Brown) was not the father of the deceased (and I knew that for sure from other evidence).  If that's the case in this instance, then it would mean that James was actually Isabella's step-father.  The fact that she is referred to as his daughter in the 1861 census doesn't preclude this - I've often seen children that I know are step-children simply recorded as sons/daughters on censuses.

So you have - possibly:
*James b ca 1847 Kirkconnel - from the 1861 census (perhaps a son of James snr from a previous marriage given the long gap to the next child, Jane?)
*Jane b ca 1855 Sanquhar - from the 1861 census (not known whether she is James snr's child)
*Isabella b ca 1858 New Cumnock - from the 1861 census (not known whether she is James snr's child - entry on death cert suggests that she was not)

1860, James BROWN and Mary KERR marry in Kirkconnel by Sanquhar (IGI from the Statutory Register)

Parents of these names had (all IGI from the Statutory Register):
1861 Mary BROWN New Cumnock
1864 James BROWN New Cumnock (did James, 14 in 1861, not survive? - or, see later, did they use the name because the other James was not really a son of James snr)
1866 Robert BROWN Cambuslang
1868 Janet Cameron BROWN Cambuslang
1871 Alexander Kerr BROWN Cambuslang
1874 Janet Cameron BROWN Cambuslang (presumably the first child of this name did not survive)

The 1851 Dumfries census is online at:
http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx

Perhaps a search for James BROWN (14 in the 1861 census) might get a result.

Well, here are more complications!

1851 Census
Kirkconnel, Household 5/51
*James BROWN, Head, married, 44, Labourer railway, b Morton
*Mary BROWN, Wife of James BROWN, married, 55, b Glasgow
  (There's an extracted entry in the IGI for the marriage of a James BROWN to a Mary GOODWIN in Kirkconnel by Sanquhar in 1834 - see name below of his unmarried sister-in-law)
*Ratchel (sic) SCOTT, Stepdaughter of James BROWN, unmarried, 23, b Kirkconnel
  (There's an LDS submission for the birth of a Rachel SCOTT in Kirkconnel, 1827, parents Thomas SCOTT and Mary GOODMAN) 
*James BROWN, Stepson of James BROWN, 3, b Kirkconnel
*Daniel ATKIN, Stepson of James BROWN, 10 months, b Tarbolton Ayrshire
*Margaret GOODWIN, Sister-in-law of James BROWN, unmarried, 66, At Home, b Glasgow

You might know more details about Mary KERR which might help locate her (assuming she was in Dumfries in 1851).  There are plenty of Mary KERRs in the census.

Some of the 1841 Dumfries census is on FreeCEN - but unfortunately not Kirkconnel, Morton or Sanquhar yet.

Regards and good luck,

JAP