Referred by Scotland General Board

[Rose224]

Looking for any help I can get.  See thread "Looking for Fadzens in Scotland".

Hoping for 1841 census info or anything else on:

Rose,

If they were mine, I would be more than confident that we were looking at the right people!

It would seem to be too much of a coincidence to find (and I note that you mentioned that Jane FADZEN was born in Wigtonshire - I don't know the source of this.  Now I see that it is from the 1881 Bellfieldside census where Jane is transcribed on FamilySearch as FADYEN though from the image it could well say FADZEN - a 60 yo widow b Wigtonshire, with unmarried children Mary 25 and Robert 22 both b Durham):
* Joseph McFAZZIAN marrying Jane LITTERICK in Mochrum Wigtonshire in 1841
* Joseph McFADZEAN (30), wife Jane (32), and children Jane (7), and John (5) in Penninghame (all of them born Mochrum) in the 1851 census (31 Mar 1851)
* Janet MCFADYEN, daughter of Joseph McF and Jane LITTERICK, christened in Nov 1851 in Penninghame
*Joseph FADZEN (might be FADYEN though it looks like a 'z' to me i.e. it is different from the enumerator's 'y' - 39), Jane (39), Jane (17), John (13), Janet (10) all born Scotland - plus Mary and Eliz (both 6) and Robert (3) - in Durham in 1861
*Jane  FADGEN (49 and widowed), John (25), Jannet (18), all born Scotland - plus Mary (15) and Robert (13) - in Durham in 1871.

I guess the obvious way to verify that Jane FADZEN/FADGEN's maiden name was LITTERICK is to purchase a birth certificate for one of the children born in Durham.

Then perhaps wait until you can get 1841 census details (when it comes online at FreeCEN, or at ScotlandsPeople which is promised soon, or via a request on the Wigtonshire board) from which you might find (if Joseph and Jane were with their parents - note that they didn't marry until October and the 1841 census was 7 Jun) the forenames of the parents of Joseph and Jane.  Also some info about the birthplaces of the parents though the 1841 was fairly limited in the information provided - in the county, elsewhere in Scotland, or in England, Ireland, or Foreign.

If you get this information, you will then be able to search for them - in the IGI, on ScotlandsPeople, etc.

If the parents were considerate enough to remain alive until the time of Statutory Registration in Scotland (it began in 1855) a Scottish death certificate usually holds a wealth of information.

Good luck,

JAP
PS: I wouldn't give a moment's thought to the variability in spelling - you'll probably find many more versions!  Though I must admit that MCFAZZIAN is quite a creative spelling - it's the only one in the IGI/ScotlandsPeople.
One of the names I am researching (a one-name study) occurs in both 'Mc' versions and versions without a 'Mc' - and I'm up to over 90 variant spellings to date and still counting.
Incidentally, don't forget that LITTERICK also might be variably spelled e.g. LITTRICK, LETTERICK, etc ...   

Thank you.

[Rose224]

Sorry if my post was confusing and too much information.  I now know the following from the 1841 census:

Mochrum   Litterick   Agnes   1      Wig   1,10   Landberrick 6
Mochrum   Litterick   Hugh   22      Wig   1,10   Landberrick 6
Mochrum   Litterick   James   37   farmer   Wig   1,10   Landberrick 6
Mochrum   Litterick   Jane   34      Wig   1,10   Landberrick 6
Mochrum   Litterick   Jane   35      Wig   1,10   Landberrick 6
Mochrum   Litterick   Jannet   10      Wig   1,10   Landberrick 6
Mochrum   Litterick   John   5      Wig   1,10   Landberrick 6
Mochrum   Litterick   Robert   1      Wig   1,10   Landberrick 6
Mochrum   McFadzen   Joseph   20   male servant   Ire   1,10   Landberrick 6

This tells me that the trail to the Fadzen/McFadzen I am chasing now goes to Ireland.  If anyone has any helpful suggestions when I get there, please let me know.

[robeena]

Hi Rose,
I am looking for McFadyen/McFadzen connections to Wigtownshire.  I would not be too quick to look for Ireland connections for your Joseph.  I have noticed that a lot of McFadyens etc. in Wigtownshire say that are from Ireland but when you track back they were born locally.  I think it has something to do with them thinking they are Irish.  If you find any Edgar/McFadyen connections I would be interested in hearing about them.
Regards
Robeena

[Rose224]

Robeena: 

I am intrigued by your statement that they thought they were Irish.  Please explain that either on-line or privately. 

I have hit a brick wall tracing my McFadyen/McFadzens back before the 1841 census where Joseph shows up at Landberrick Farm.  I do know that my McFadzens emigrated to England and at some point were joined by a Robert McFadzen, born circa 1871.  I believe him to be the father or grandfather of Joseph, but I cannot find him anywhere before he dies in England in 1870 something.

Would you also clarify whether by "Edgar/McFadyen" you are asking about Edgar as a first name of a McFadyen or is Edgar/McFadyen two surnames in a marriage. 

[robeena]

Hi Rose,
I am referring to two surnames Edgar and McFadyen. I have a John Edgar born between 1821 and 1828, depending on which cert. you look at and emigrated to Australia in 1848.  Robert McFadyen b ca 1832 father John McFadyen and Helen Kelly emigrated to Aus. in 1857.  These two people are connected and we do not know how. Also we cannot find John Edgar in Scotland because we have no parents names for him. 
Robert's father John McFadyen born 1806 father is Andrew McFadyen and Mary McWilliam keeps saying on censuses that he was born Ireland but he wasnt. There is a possibly connected family of JOhn Kelly and Helen McPherson who also say they were born Ireland but werent.  Either they told the enumerator they were Irish and he/she wrote down Ireland or they had been told it because it wasn't true.
I thought your Joseph was on the 1841 census so how can Robert be born 1871 and be his father? or am I getting mixed up here.
Regards
Robeena

[Rose224]

Sorry, it is early here and I need another cup of coffee.  1871 should have been 1781.  I don't have my records here with me, but Joseph was born somewhere about 1822.  So Robert either sired a child when he was in his early 40s or he is the grandfather.

I will keep your information/names in mind and when I have time, I will pull out my records. 

[robeena]

Do you have Joseph's father's name from his marriage certificate? I have access to Ancestry if you give me a few names I might be able to check out a few things.  Got to go now, bedtime this part of the world.
Bye
Robeena

[Rose224]

Unfortunately no.  I have the marriage certificate, he married Jane Litterick in the Mochrum Parish Church shortly after the 1841 census but it does not recite their parents names.  I appreciate the offer.  I belonged to Ancrestry for a year before I took my "brick wall" hiatus.  Our little exchange this a.m. may have given me the motivation to resume renew my searching.

Have you ever joined one of the DNA projects?  I have thought about it and I know that there are some McFadyen/McFadzen's in the groups but everytime I try to figure out what to do and what the results will tell me, I get overwhelmed.

[robeena]

Hi Rose,
I think the DNA things are male only.  I understand what you mean, the Edgar family has a DNA project going but they are getting totally confusing results so either they have not yet got enough people in it or there is no connection between them all. I think this is actually surprising seeing the amount of intermarriage in the villages in Wigtownshire and Dumfriesshire. Will have a look and see if I can work out exactly when the McFadzens went to England.
Regards
Robeena