Author Topic: Major Headache  (Read 6708 times)

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: Major Headache
« Reply #45 on: Monday 16 January 06 23:36 GMT (UK) »
There is absolutely no proof that Isaac was a bigamist. If this was him and no firm proof yet it was, then there is no evidence he married a second time (I couldn't find any Eliza Scraggs by the way born Burslem of the right age on earlier censuses, so the Congleton marriage entry would appear to be out and no other possibilities as yet found). Isaac could just have lived with Eliza as man and wife.
The only person known for sure to have married a second time was Sarah! It would be interesting to see on her marriage certificate what she puts as her status, single (unlikely), widowed or divorced.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rosemaryag

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 199
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Major Headache
« Reply #46 on: Tuesday 17 January 06 11:10 GMT (UK) »
There is absolutely no proof that Isaac was a bigamist. If this was him and no firm proof yet it was, then there is no evidence he married a second

 :( yes I agree Valda - I was just speculating - sorry if my last post wasn't so clear :-[

Rosemary
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Essex: Allison/Alliston, Claydon, Lambert, Pettican, Willsher, Mead, Butcher
Hampshire: Boddy, Webb, Yatman
London & adjacent: Boddy, Cormack, Nevill, Shephard, Westerman, Palmer
Norfolk: Surflen
Suffolk: Adams, Birt, Pooley, Smythe (Stanton & Badingham), Ward, Wham
Sussex: Grinsted, Pooley, Tillstone, Batcock, Bartlett, Peters
Warwickshire: Shephard

Offline janan

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,144
    • View Profile
Re: Major Headache
« Reply #47 on: Tuesday 17 January 06 16:56 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for clarifying things Valda - looks perfectly clear today anyway, think my brain was seizing up, chocabloc with Harrisons/Bradburys/Tansleys ;D

IJL you will have to order  a few of Rosemary's magic certificates which turn up overnight otherwise there will be more than headaches around here more like head explosions ;D ;D

Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge

Offline ijl

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
    • View Profile
Re: Major Headache
« Reply #48 on: Tuesday 17 January 06 17:53 GMT (UK) »

I agree with Rosemary nothing on Ancestry or Free BMD for the Marriage of Sarah and Samuel...so had a look at the BVRI and found this ???

SARAH HARRISON married SAMUEL BRADBURY on 5th August 1871 Hanley Staffs.

Husb 45 - wife 41.
Husbands father - William BRADBURY
Wifes father - George TOUNSLEY

Source FHL Film

Hi there,

just going through the info and noting which certs i need.

Checking the above marriage on 1837. Found Sarah S.O.T 6b 245.

however no matching Samuel. Only 2 Sam Bradburys, both married

in Manchester ???

    regards IJL

Suey
lloyd,bradbury-harrison,turner,orwell,miller,jones
staffordshire,shropshire


Offline ijl

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
    • View Profile
Re: Major Headache
« Reply #49 on: Tuesday 17 January 06 17:55 GMT (UK) »
Why is my posting in the blue box with the quote??

           IJL
lloyd,bradbury-harrison,turner,orwell,miller,jones
staffordshire,shropshire

Offline Valda

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,160
    • View Profile
Re: Major Headache
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 17 January 06 21:16 GMT (UK) »
I think 'the team's' combined efforts have created a really interesting working hypothesis. We now need further evidence to support the hypothesis.

First part of the hypothesis

Isaac Harrison is the same man baptised in 1829, to parents John and Ann, who appears on the 1841 and 1851 censuses in Hanley and the 1861, 71, 81 and 91 censuses in Burslem. He is Sarah' Tansleys first husband.

The  two pieces of evidence needed to 'triangulate' with the census records is

1829 baptismal record for Isaac's father's occupation (and anything else it produces - and if you are obtaining this record, a check in the register for the other siblings baptisms to see whether the names and ages match to the 1841 and 1851 censuses)

Isaac's 1850 marriage certificate to Sarah for the name of their fathers and their occupations (and anything else it produces such as witness names/addresses which might be useful).

If the evidence from these two sources supports the census information then there is a very strong case that Isaac on all these records is the same man.

The second part of the hypothesis is the Sarah who married Samuel was the same woman as the Sarah who married Isaac.

For this is needed Sarah's second 1871 marriage certificate for her father's full name (the BVRI gives us Tounsley and Sarah's age - the age matches with the 1851 census) and occupation with the interesting by product of Sarah's status on marriage.

Sarah should either marry as widow or divorced.
Because the evidence points to the fact she was the daughter of a tradesman's family and married into a tradesman's family, if she stayed in the area I just can't see how she could marry again as a widow - even in Stoke (did Samuel and Sarah stay in the area? - what happened to them after the 1871 census?). If they did stay then it would have required the whole of the Harrison family (siblings wives and children - and their wives' families') to have left the area. Otherwise someone in this extended group must have known Isaac was still alive.  The only other way would be if Isaac and his mother had done a moonlight flit and broken all contact with the family. Isaac may be, but his mother as well? So if Sarah is a widow on her second marriage, that either brings into question all these censuses are of the same man, or that Sarah was the same Sarah who married Isaac, or the reasoning that states it was too risky for her to commit bigamy is flawed somehow.

If Sarah was divorced on her second marriage (expensive but possible to afford for succesful trademen's families) then that's very good if you like more records - local newspaper accounts and divorce case papers from The National Archives could give further detail.

Hard as it is to 'put down' such an interesting story I think we just have to wait for the necessary evidence and with it the next instalment.

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline janan

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,144
    • View Profile
Re: Major Headache
« Reply #51 on: Wednesday 18 January 06 11:10 GMT (UK) »
Well summed up Valda  :D
Now we must be patient
Jan ;)
ALL CENSUS DATA INCLUDED IN POSTINGS IS CROWN COPYRIGHT, FROM  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

bedfordshire - farr, carver,handley, godfrey, newell, bird, emmerton, underwood,ancell
buckinghamshire- pain
cambridgeshire- bird, carver
hertfordshire- conisbee, bean, saunders, quick,godfrey
derbyshire- allsop, noon
devon - griffin, love, rapsey
dorset- rendall, gale
somerset- rendall, churchill
surrey/middlesex - douglas, conisbee, childs, lyon groombridge