Help please

[coffeecup]

I've been looking for my Birchall family and came across this. Marriage of Catherine Birchall to Joseph Naylor Rainford Parish Church 24/12/1812.

The 1851 census at Sherdley Cottages also shows Ann Birchall mother-in-law widow age 76 Sutton, and James Birchall 27 lodger, coal miner.

I'm looking for the family of Joseph Worrall Birchall b1828 Sutton.

[Valda]

I would look at this family in 1851 as possibly wrongly enumerated - Birchall instead of Burkett. There is certainly a Charles Birchall born Sutton aged 33 on the 1861 census and no Burketts born Sutton. Joseph Worrel's younger brother was Charles Martin Birchall baptised 1833.

1851 census HO107 2195 folio 214
2 Welsh Row Sutton Lancashire
Joseph Burkett 60  Head Widower Boatman Sheeke? Lancashire
Joseph W Burkett 23  Son Coalminer Sutton Lancashire
Charles M Burkett 18  Son Coalminer Sutton Lancashire

BIRCHALL, Joseph Worrel   
Christening Date:   18 May 1828 St Helens, Lancashire, BTs
Father:   Joseph BIRCHALL
Mother:   Ann

BIRCHALL, Charles Martin   
Christening Date:   17 Mar 1833 St Helens, Lancashire, BTs
Father:   Joseph BIRCHALL
Mother:   Ann

BIRCHALL, Margaret   
Christening Date:   29 Aug 1830 St Helens, Lancashire, BTs
Father:   Joseph BIRCHALL
Mother:   Ann

BIRCHALL, Ann   
Christening Date:   30 Apr 1826 St Helens, Lancashire, BTs
Father:   Joseph BIRCHALL
Mother:   Ann

BIRCHALL, George   
Christening Date:   15 Feb 1824 St Helens, Lancashire, BTs
Father:   Joseph BIRCHALL
Mother:   Ann

BIRCHALL, Henry   
Christening Date:   27 Aug 1820 St Helens, Lancashire, BTs
Father:   Joseph BIRCHALL
Mother:   Hannah

BIRCHALL, James   
Christening Date:   6 Dec 1818 St Helens, Lancashire, BTs
Father:   Joseph BIRCHALL
Mother:   Ann

BIRCHALL, Thomas   
Christening Date:   28 Nov 1813 St Helens, Lancashire, BTs
Father:   Joseph BIRCHALL
Mother:   Hannah

1841 census HO107 517/4 folio 22 page 4
Welsh Row Sutton Lancashire   
Ann Birchall 50 born  Lancashire
Ann Birchall 15  born Lancashire
Joseph Birchall 13  born Lancashire
Charles Birchall 8 born Lancashire

Regards

Valda

[coffeecup]

Valda, I can't thank you enough for finding this. This is fantastic. Thank you for your trouble. May I ask where you found the chrisening/birth details please? This is absolutely the correct family. I would very much appreciate you pointing me in the right direction to look them up.

Thank you,

Steph

[coffeecup]

To add, I'd found a marriage of Joseph Birchall to Ann Topping at Prescot St Mary's 10/6/1811, and two of the christening dates you have listed, James 1818, and Henry 1820 line up with their children. If this allows me to place them in this 'complete' family then I have the mother's maiden name and the correct marriage and this helps tremendously. There is another lady I know who will really value what you have found here. Thank you again.

[Valda]

The baptisms are from the St. Helen's Bishop transcripts not the parish registers. Coverage on the BVRI (supplementary CDs to the IGI) 1813-1850. I believe Sutton is a district of St. Helens.

http://genoot.com/downloads/BVRI2/
Gives information on parish coverage.

If Joseph married Ann Topping (sometimes given as Hannah on the baptisms) where does the middle names of Worrel and/or Martin come from?

Have you checked the St. Helens parish registers for possible marriages?

Regards

Valda

[coffeecup]

Hello and thank you Valda,

There is another marriage of a Joseph Birchall to Ann Forshaw 8/8/1808 St Marys Prescot, but the transcripts Cd I have isn't fully comprehensive as I've found entries missing even when I've had a copy of the marriage certificate to confirm. However, it was on the Latter Day Saints that I found those two christenings that you matched with, with Ann Topping listed as mother, but this was patron submitted. You're right, Worrall does sound like a maiden name doesn't it? And Martin for that matter. There is a later birth in 1907 of a Joseph Worrall Birchall, and I assume he must be related somewhere down the line?

Please excuse my ignorance regarding the bishops transciripts, I've got a limited knowledge of researching, but I'm very enthusiastic. I gather that the information is not online and has to be looked up elsewhere, or can these be purchased as a CD? It sounds as if it could prove extremely useful.

I'll save the list of batch numbers that you have kindly provided, although I'm not sure what to do next. Can you advise please.

Many thanks,
Steph

[Valda]

Steph

The Bishop transcripts are copies of the parish register that were submitted yearly to the Bishop. Like the parish registers themselves where they survive they will be deposited in the local county record office. The parish register is always the source you would prefer to look at as BTs are copies, and therefore prone to errors and ommissions (though they may also contain additional information). The BVRI is a mixture of sources some of which are extracted from parish registers themselves.

If you can't visit the county record office you could engage a researcher to work on your behalf or order copies of the registers on microfilm (if they have been microfilmed - the county record office would know - I can't find a reference for batch numbers) from your local Mormon Family History Centre (though they take somewhile to arrive)

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp

http://tinyurl.com/unwfc

The BVRI can be purchased from

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Distribution Division
399 Garretts Green Lane
Birmingham B33 0UH
Telephone: 0121 784 9555 or 0121 789 7666

Regards

Valda

[coffeecup]

Thanks Valda,

That was very clear. I had a look at the Latter Day Saints and they offer the BVRI'S as a CD set at $20. It doesn't make it clear if more info is available on these 16 (gosh!) discs than is available online, but you have provided me with info that I otherwise wouldn't have known. So I may give them a go and ring them on the number you have given me. Thanks again Valda, very much appreciated indeed.

Best regards,
Steph

[coffeecup]

Hi again Vlada,

I started to look these children up that you put forward and found tonight that the first one Thomas Birchall b1813 was a Captain of a barge in Holyhead 1861, with his son Joseph as ships mate. I know from Joseph Worrall Birchall's wedding certificate and the 1851 census that Joseph Birchall snr was also a boatman or waterman. I've never come across a record like this before and it's fascinating. I think there is the possibility that the son Thomas would have followed in his father's footsteps, and become a boatman or waterman. His wife had an interesting name, Indianna Nield. It seems her son Joseph honoured his mother by naming his daughter Indianna Birchall too. This really adds weight to the possibilty that these christenings are correct for this family. It may have taken me years to find this info if it hadn't been for your input.

Thank you so much.

Steph