My unknown Grandfather WW! casuality

[bjo]

Hello All,
My Father was born 1916 and his Father died in 1917. My Grandfather never saw his only son which I find very sad.
Soon after my Father's Mother died and my Father was adopted.
I have only just found this record for my Grandfather's death and wondered if I could find out which regiment he was in and what battle he would have been in on the day he was killed.
I visited Ypres last year to see Tyne Cot and the surrounding area.  Very moving.
Pity that my Father didn't live to find out even this small piece of information.
Brenda


In Memory of Rifleman ARTHUR EDMOND ORSLER
S/18061, 1st Bn., Rifle Brigade who died on Tuesday 2 October 1917.
Remembered with honour TYNE COT MEMORIAL
Panel 145-147

[liverpool annie]

Here's his medal card bjo - you can download from the National Archives!!

Orsler, Arthur E
Rifle Brigade
S/18061
Private
Date
1914-1920
Catalogue reference
WO 372/15

http://tinyurl.com/8t3pa

and follow this for the movements of the 1st Battalion

http://www.1914-1918.net/rb.htm

Annie 

[harribobs]

excuse me if I'm stating the obvious but his Regiment is the Rifle Brigade, and he was in the 1st Battalion of it.

the battle he died in is known as 3rd Ypres or more commonly Passchendaele (or Passiondale as the troops called it) this is a link to a site about it http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/ypres3.htm  and http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/ypres3.html

As you have visited Tyne Cot, you have visited the battleground (did you see the blockhouses there?) the troops fought up (from ypres direction) the ridge towards Passchendale

[bjo]

Hi there,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I could determine that the Regiment was a rifle brigade and that he was in the 1st Battalion, but when I tried to look into this there were so many differnt rifle brigades that had existed.
When I tried to find a 1st Batallion I was further confused.
From the Rifle Brigade's webpage I found the time when my Grandfather served 1917 and couldn't find a 1st Battalion
Then I found that the London rifle brigade consisted of 15 companies and in 1908 became the 5th (City of London) Battalion, I did a lot of searching and the plot thickened. So the 'obvious' was becoming less obvious !!!
I was thinking when I was in Belgium that he could have fallen at the Battle of Polygon Wood, and visited the whole area. An experience that has made a great impression on me.
Brenda

[harribobs]

Hi Brenda

if you look at the link in annie's post http://www.1914-1918.net/rb.htm it gives a list of the battalions including the 1st

"1st Battalion   

August 1914 : in Colchester. Part of 11th Brigade, 4th Division"

from there, there's a link to the 4th division, there you'll find a 'Summary history of the division'  looking down  it , the division did indeed fight in Polygon Wood (3rd Ypres) which fits

i've looked 'soldiers died' but it doesn't give much more info than you have already apart from born, enlisted and resided in Shoreditch

i don't profess to know much about the rifle brigade but we do have an expert in Andy, who i hope may contribute more

hope this helps

chris

[Andy Pay]

Brenda,
The 1st Battalion Rifle Brigade's war record for this time states the following:-
On the evening of 1st October we went into the line east of Langemarck, relieving the King's Own of the 12th Brigade. The so called "line" consisted merely of isolated shell-holes and short lengths of trench.
"I" Company was on the right, "B" Company on the left, "A" in support and "C" in reserve near Au Bon Gite on the Steenbeke. Battalion Headquarters were in a concrete "Pill Box" just behind the front line. Had a fairly peaceful time there - certainly in the front line, but in the rear of it the Boche shelled pretty consistently, and Headquarters was right in the middle of one of his barrage lines.
We were relieved on the evening of the 3rd by the Somerset Light Infantry and Hampshires and East Lancashire Regiments, all of whom formed up in their assembly positions in a very small area; this necessitated very careful arrangements. On relief we moved back into our assembly position the other side of the Steenbeke, and became the reserve battalion of the brigade for the battle which begun at 6 a.m. on the 4th.

Your relative's number S/18061 indicates a New Army number. I will have a little look at the War Diary for the 1st Battalion shortly for you to see if we can get any more information for you and maybe a casualty return form with any luck which might tell us how he died, but it sounds like he was killed by a shell.

Andy

[Andy Pay]

Brenda,
The 1908 Haldane reforms which is the period you have referred to was a time of much upheaval in the British Army. There were a lot of Territorial or Volunteer rifle Regiments which might have confused you.
In these reforms the mother Regiment, The Rifle Brigade lost a lot of its associations with numerous units which at that time would have been referred to as Rifle Regiments.
The Rifle Brigade is a Regiment in its own rights, it was known as the 95th Rifles until taken out of the numbered Regiment system. It was also known as the Prince Consorts Own and in the 1960's became part of the Royal Green Jackets along with the Kings Royal Rifle Corps and the Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry.

I have been through the War Diary for you and can find no extra information and unfortunately their is no casualty return for the time in question, not unusual for this period in the War.
However a couple of extra bits in the War Diary are a piece of trench map covering the area and an aerial photograph which I will post here for you.

Andy

[Andy Pay]

[Andy Pay]

The coloured area is where the 1st Rifle Brigade were