Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige

[Forfarian]

On page 102, Walter Wilson writes "For the present, I will detain you no longer, but bid you "Good Night"  in the words of Ebenezr Elliott, the Corn Law rhymer - "He that hath done his best, let him rest." He chose a quote from an Elliott, his Father's name is Elliot.

That is so nonsensical that it's beyond ridicule. If I choose to quote Robert Burns, or Walter Scott, does that prove that either of them is related to me? 

More compelling, if he was raised by a Wilson, he would have mentioned that James Wilson, Economist published The Corn Laws in 1853 if he was a relative. How could he leave that out if he was a REAL Wilson.  They were contemporaries.

He emigrated to Australia before the publication of the 'Corn Laws' and he probably neither knew nor cared about some work published by a politician in Britain, even if the politician in question was a cousin.

More clutching at straws in a vain and futile attempt to ignore the PRIMARY evidence.

[BrettMaximus]

Hitting your stride on this @MJM and right up your alley.

And @Forfarian The mention of 1848 and 1849 would most likely be in relation to my GGGG Grandfather Walter Wilson 1770-1847 and I have a copy of his Will. Also a Cabinet Maker of 9 High Street, Hawick.

I never found a Will for for his son, Walter Wilson 1798-1862, but I do Have Jessie Wilson's Will from 1913.

A photo and description of Walter Wilson 1770-1847 with description from the Hawick museum attached.

Also a photo and description of Walter Wilson 1798-1862 with description from the Hawick museum attached.

Brett

[majm]

I have, among my Australian ancestors, a publican with the surname WILSON.  His father arrived in NSW in the 1810s when the Scotsman, Lachlan Macquarie, was governor. My husband has, among his Australian ancestors, a cabinetmaker, surnamed GUNN; his mum and dad arrived 1850s,  made a fortune making coffins.....    nothing in that family's private papers indicates any recognition of Scottish CLAN status.

[Forfarian]

“He was raised by his father Walter Wilson of Hawick, Cabinet Maker of Hawick (1798-1862), and then took on an apprenticeship in near by Selkirk as a young lad. “

No, he was not raised by his father Walter Wilson of Hawick, Cabinet-maker of Hawick and he did not live with either Walter Wilson, Sr. or Jr. in Hawick because he was not on the census in either 1841 or 1851.  See attached 1841 Census document.

That census proves nothing, and in particular it does not prove that Wilhelmina's son was not brought up by his father.

1. The census lists a W M Wilson, aged 18, apprentice, in the household of Henry Hume, baker, in Selkirk. It is an assumption that this is Walter, because it cannot be proved that this is not a William Wilson, and where did the middle initial come from?

2. It is normal for a young man to enter on an apprenticeship in his mid-teens, so the fact that W M Wilson (if we accept that he is Wilhelmina's son Walter) is living with the Hume family tells us nothing about where he lived until then.

3. Henry Hume, at 34, is far too young to have stood in loco parentis for Wilhelmina's son.

4. In the 1851 census Walter Wilson, 28, baker, born England, is living in Selkirk. Obviously, if his job was in Selkirk he would live in Selkirk, not 17 miles away in Hawick.

Therefore neither the 1841 nor the 1851 census proves that Walter Wilson was not, as he said, brought up by his father Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker in Hawick.

The 1851 census does show, however, that Walter Wilson, 52, widower, is the only cabinetmaker in Hawick of that name, and therefore must be the one to whom his and Wilhelmina's illegitimate son wrote in 1852 on his way to Australia.

[Forfarian]

And @Forfarian The mention of 1848 and 1849 would most likely be in relation to my GGGG Grandfather Walter Wilson 1770-1847 and I have a copy of his Will.

No.

The 1848 one is indeed your GGGGGf the cabinetmaker 1770-1847, but the 1849 one is the other Walter Wilson, who was a baker married to Isabella Richardson. Which proves that he cannot have been the father of Wilhelmina's son, because Wilhelmina's son wrote to his living father four years later.

[majm]

 

"Dunn n Dustered" as my Late Gran would say. 

Well sorted Forfarian.

9.58 p.m. in NSW ... not sure of NYC time. 

JM

[BrettMaximus]

Correct @Forfarian , neither the 1841, or 1851 census have any affect on where Walter grew up.

He was certainly apprenticed as a baker with the Hume family, as that is also reflected in his 1844 diary.

It is also mentioned in words of such, that he shed tears when his father wrote to him and mentioned the woman that had long since passed away "Janet Wilson nee Gray" who had played the part of Mother to him. Which indicates that he was raised by his Father and Janet Gray.

There is also Walter's inexplicable carpentry skills as mentioned in the interview in the 1880's .. His fellow diggers (gold miners) thought him to be a carpenter rather than a Baker.

This suggests to me that Walter was doing quite a lot of woodwork with his father and grandfather at 9 High Street, Hawick, before deciding to become a Baker.

And interesting stuff @MAJM on the Clans.

Cheers

Brett

“He was raised by his father Walter Wilson of Hawick, Cabinet Maker of Hawick (1798-1862), and then took on an apprenticeship in near by Selkirk as a young lad. “

No, he was not raised by his father Walter Wilson of Hawick, Cabinet-maker of Hawick and he did not live with either Walter Wilson, Sr. or Jr. in Hawick because he was not on the census in either 1841 or 1851.  See attached 1841 Census document.

That census proves nothing, and in particular it does not prove that Wilhelmina's son was not brought up by his father.

1. The census lists a W M Wilson, aged 18, apprentice, in the household of Henry Hume, baker, in Selkirk. It is an assumption that this is Walter, because it cannot be proved that this is not a William Wilson, and where did the middle initial come from?

2. It is normal for a young man to enter on an apprenticeship in his mid-teens, so the fact that W M Wilson (if we accept that he is Wilhelmina's son Walter) is living with the Hume family tells us nothing about where he lived until then.

3. Henry Hume, at 34, is far too young to have stood in loco parentis for Wilhelmina's son.

4. In the 1851 census Walter Wilson, 28, baker, born England, is living in Selkirk. Obviously, if his job was in Selkirk he would live in Selkirk, not 17 miles away in Hawick.

Therefore neither the 1841 nor the 1851 census proves that Walter Wilson was not, as he said, brought up by his father Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker in Hawick.

The 1851 census does show, however, that Walter Wilson, 52, widower, is the only cabinet maker in Hawick of that name, and therefore must be the one to whom his and Wilhelmina's illegitimate son wrote in 1852 on his way to Australia.

[BrettMaximus]

Aye 

"Dunn n Dustered" as my Late Gran would say. 

Well sorted Forfarian.

9.58 p.m. in NSW ... not sure of NYC time. 

JM

[Forfarian]

Please show me the facts that do qualify that counter my argument.

With the greatest of pleasure.

The primary sources are

1. Baptism record of Walter Wilson, illegitimate son of Walter Wilson, carpenter in Hawick, and Wilhelmina Bell of Riddings (already posted twice on this thread).
2. Marriage certificate of Walter Wilson, son of Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker, and Wilhelmina Bell, to Janet Brydon. Already posted on this thread.
3. Death certificate of Walter Wilson, husband of Janet Brydon, son of Walter Wilson and Wilhelmina, whose surname was incorrectly given as Riddings (where she lived). Only the index listing posted so far but I have no doubt that it would be easy enough to get and post the original document.

Therefore there is absolutely no question whatsever that Walter Wilson, illegitimate son of Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker in Hawick, and Wilhelmina Bell, is the one who emigrated to Australia, married Janet Brydon and died there in 1903.

So the only question is which Walter Wilson was his father.

The early trade directory lists one Walter Wilson, cabinet maker, in Hawick. Already mentioned in this thread.

The 1841 census shows two Walter Wilsons, cabinetmakers, in Hawick, in the same household, one aged 71 and the other 42. It is reasonable to suppose that these are father (1770-1847) and son (1798-1862), and that they would therefore be listed only once in the trade directory.

The 1851 census shows one Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker, widower, 52, in Hawick.

The 1861 census shows one Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker, married, 62, in Hawick.

Death of Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker, in Hawick in 1862, husband of Isabella Gray, son of Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker, and Katherine Oliver. Extract already posted on this thread.

Wilhelmina's son's diary states that he wrote to his father in Hawick in 1852 on his way to Australia. If his father was not Walter Wilson (1798-1862), you would have to invent another, entirely separate, Walter Wilson who was a cabinetmaker in Hawick for 40 years but is not recorded in the baptism registers, the early trade directories, or the census, or the death records.

There are a massive number of secondary sources that support him being brought up by his father Walter Wilson, cabinetmaker (1798-1823), apprenticed to a baker, working as a baker, emigrating to Australia and settling there.

All your arguments against this interpretation are either easily disproved or so abstruse or irrelevant that they are not worth the effort of repeating them.

Walter Bell Wilson (1823-1903), was the son of Walter Wilson (1798-1862), grandson of Walter Wilson (1770-1847) and great-grandson of Walter Wilson (b 1712).