Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige

[E.M. Wilson]

I know that they stopped in Australia but they didn't settle there.  Thank you for that.

Brett claims to be from Walter Wilson of 1798.  If he was a bastard baptised in England, they would have never crossed paths.

James Glenny Wilson was the Son of George Wilson of Kilmeny, Son of William Wilson, Manufacturer at that point the family was contained in Hawick busy with textiles and James went on to New Zealand after his housekeeper peaked his interest while he was studying and breeding dogs in Edinburgh.  All of this happened in the next generation after Walter Wilson b. 1798.  They were Quakers by now and wouldn't have associated with a bastard.

I'm in touch with the NZ side of the family but thank you for that.

[Jamjar]

Where is the birth certificate? Who was the mother? Who does his Great Great Grandfather's death certificate list as his parents?

The birth of Walter, born to Walter and Wilhelmina has been established by the baptism document. You most likely won’t get a birth cert for that time.

Walter’s death registration confirms parent’s names, as provided by his family, and link to information on baptism document.

The family bible supports the information found.

The only issue I see is linking him to those you call ‘your’ ancestors in Hawick.

I’d like to know where Wilhelmina ended up. Although Walter mentions writing to his father - no mention of mother - in the travel diary, it doesn’t mean he had lived with him, hence the need for the ‘41 and ‘51 census showing his age, location and occupation.

I’m still waiting on Brett to say who - the 3rd child - the brother of Jessie and Walter was who went to NZ.

I know you don’t believe that Jessie had siblings, but the family bible seems to indicate she did.

Has Brett provided you with copies of the bible’s listings?

Jamjar

[Jamjar]

Brett claims to be from Walter Wilson of 1798.  If he was a bastard baptised in England, they would have never crossed paths.

He was baptised in England, that doesn’t mean he was born, or lived there.

Jamjar

[majm]

I had added to my post 

E.M. 

I think you have mis-read my post ... the info I have provided in my reply is from one of my elderly relatives ...  He is contradicting you.  It is an aspect of your research that he is questioning. 

JM 
ADD  Sir James was from Hawick, ENGLAND apparently ... see NZ papers past. OBSERVER, VOLUME XXXIII, ISSUE 19, 18 JANUARY 1913 page 4.  James Glenny Wilson was born in Hawick, England, sixty-four years ago, and had his education topped off at London and Edinburgh universities. When he was twenty-one he arrived in Victoria, picked up some colonial experience, discovered New Zealand four years later and took up wool and mutton culture ....
.....

So an NZ paper in January 1913 noted Sir James was 64 and was born in Hawick, England...

JM

[Jamjar]

I had added to my post 

E.M. 

I think you have mis-read my post ... the info I have provided in my reply is from one of my elderly relatives ...  He is contradicting you.  It is an aspect of your research that he is questioning. 

JM 
ADD  Sir James was from Hawick, ENGLAND apparently ... see NZ papers past. OBSERVER, VOLUME XXXIII, ISSUE 19, 18 JANUARY 1913 page 4.  James Glenny Wilson was born in Hawick, England, sixty-four years ago, and had his education topped off at London and Edinburgh universities. When he was twenty-one he arrived in Victoria, picked up some colonial experience, discovered New Zealand four years later and took up wool and mutton culture ....
.....

So an NZ paper in January 1913 noted Sir James was 64 and was born in Hawick, England...

JM

I think they erred there JM. It should be Scotland, I feel.

Having said that it appears that there is no evidence for the birth of James. Wonder why that is?

Jamjar

[E.M. Wilson]

The NZ paper listing Hawick as being in England. It's a misprint. Sir James Glenny Wilson was there 20 years after Brett's Great Great Grandfather was there.  No mention of these two meeting in Australia...because it didn't happen. Brett's Great Great Grandfather was in Castlemaine as a Gold Rush pioneer digging through mud. Sir James Glenny was very comfortable let's say and married a woman whose father owned 53,000 acres of New Zealand land.  Worlds apart.

You write "The only issue I see is linking him to those you call ‘your’ ancestors in Hawick." That is the issue. Brett has linked himself to My ancestors without any proof, without making the connection.  Not even the illegitimate connection.  I call them "my" ancestors because that is a fact, that is the truth and it can not be changed or interpreted, or opined and it's all laid out on Scotland's People for anyone to see and it is in my family tree.

No, Brett did not provide me with the bible listings.

There are a lot of "ifs" here, aren't there?

If Jessie had illegitimate half-brothers and half-sisters and if they are related as Brett claims but can not prove, Walter still would not have been associating with his bastard cousin (if Brett's Great Great Grandfather was actually the cousin of Sir James Glenny  Wilson), Sir James Glenny Wilson because James was a Quaker with high moral standards from a family with high moral standards. They were Quakers that didn't believe in war, debt and being louses creating children out of wedlock - you follow me here? If you want to be louse, that's fine but you can't be both a louse and a Quaker being part of a Quaker family or be a Quaker and hang around louses. My family also made the Quaker Chapel in Hawick - so they were really into the Quaker lifestyle all the way.  There is no connection here.

[majm]

They may well have erred  ...     newspapers can make mistakes, afterall, reporters are human too.

JM

[majm]

E.M.  Yes,  I do well appreciate Quakers.   I wonder though if you are reading all the live links and going through these to see all the information about the Hawick WILSONs that has actually been in the public domain for decades, long before the Internet...

JM

[majm]

The NZ paper listing Hawick as being in England. It's a misprint. Sir James Glenny Wilson was there 20 years after Brett's Great Great Grandfather was there.  No mention of these two meeting in Australia...because it didn't happen. Brett's Great Great Grandfather was in Castlemaine as a Gold Rush pioneer digging through mud. Sir James Glenny was very comfortable let's say and married a woman whose father owned 53,000 acres of New Zealand land.  Worlds apart.

You write "The only issue I see is linking him to those you call ‘your’ ancestors in Hawick." That is the issue. Brett has linked himself to My ancestors without any proof, without making the connection.  Not even the illegitimate connection.  I call them "my" ancestors because that is a fact, that is the truth and it can not be changed or interpreted, or opined and it's all laid out on Scotland's People for anyone to see and it is in my family tree by Lucy Ann Wilson of 1890.

No, Brett did not provide me with the bible listings.

There are a lot of "ifs" here, aren't there?

If Jessie had illegitimate half-brothers and half-sisters and if they are related as Brett claims but can not prove, Walter still would not have been associating with his bastard cousin (if Brett's Great Great Grandfather was actually the cousin of Sir James Glenny  Wilson), Sir James Glenny Wilson because James was a Quaker with high moral standards from a family with high moral standards. They were Quakers that didn't believe in war, debt and being louses creating children out of wedlock - you follow me here? It just doesn't make sense.  If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck, guess what - It's a duck!  There is no connection here.

James Glenny WILSON was in Victoria for a number of years, in the 1870s.   Brett's relative was also in Victoria in that same time frame.  James was here on his father's properties.  While here, in Australia, he went to New Zealand, and purchased land there and returned to Victoria where he married.  His father's businesses were unable to continue to fund James, so his wife's funds were vital in the New Zealand ventures.   

Earlier E.M. was concerned about Brett's claim about his WILSON passenger on the Diadem.   -  I imagine E.M. would have the shipping details for James Glenny WILSON to Victoria and then back and forth to New Zealand. 

I know that they stopped in Australia but they didn't settle there.  Thank you for that.

Brett claims to be from Walter Wilson of 1798.  If he was a bastard baptised in England, they would have never crossed paths.

James Glenny Wilson was the Son of George Wilson of Kilmeny, Son of William Wilson, Manufacturer at that point the family was contained in Hawick busy with textiles and James went on to New Zealand after his housekeeper peaked his interest while he was studying and breeding dogs in Edinburgh.  All of this happened in the next generation after Walter Wilson b. 1798.  They were Quakers by now and wouldn't have associated with a bastard.

I'm in touch with the NZ side of the family but thank you for that.

I am amazed that any family history buff in the 21st century is fretting over whether someone's birth was or was not within a formal marriage.

JM