Can you help me break down my brickwall

[MonicaL]

Hi Margaret

I thought I would post this info here to keep all your Morrison threads together  - continued from this more recent post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,282351.0.html

Just picking up on Lindsay's findings and her last comment....so who was Malcolm McGregor who shows as grandson to Margaret Morrison when reporting her death?....

Well, he wasn't the grandson - it was his wife Janet STEVENSON who was 

It took a while to figure out. I had seen the child Margaret who showed with Margaret mother in the 1841 and with Peter in 1851:

1841:
William Morrison 60
Sophia Morrison 55
James Morrison    30
Margrate Robertson 4

Address: New Market, St Ninians

1851:
William Morrison 74
Sophia Morrison 70
James Morrison    46
Thomas Morrison 34
John Morrison    30
Margaret Morrison 40, daughter, b. Hand Loom Weaver (tartan), b. St Ninians
Margaret Morrison 14, Grandaughter, Peicer (wool Mill), b. St Ninians
Peter Morrison    7, Grandson, b. St Ninians
Archibald   2

Address: New Market, Bannockburn, St Ninians

Daughter Margaret Robertson/Morrison looks to have married a Robert STEVENSON:

ROBERT STEVENSON  (Coal miner) Marriages:Spouse: MARGARET ROBERTSON
Marriage: 22 JAN 1860  Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland

  Sadly, SP seems to have eaten the cert...it's just not there - frustrating or what  .  I have found Margaret Robertson/Morrison's death but father's details were blank (I was hoping maybe for a connection to Peter's father unfortunately without the marriage cert to view/confirm by the time it got to her death nobody knew this info).

She went on to have the following children:

1. MARGARET STEVENSON  Birth: 12 APR 1860 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
2. JANET STEVENSON Birth: 20 SEP 1861 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
3. ELIZABETH STEVENSON Birth: 21 FEB 1863 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
4. MARY STEVENSON Birth: 07 OCT 1864 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
5. JOHN STEVENSON Birth: 13 APR 1866 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
6. ROBERT STEVENSON Birth: 29 DEC 1867 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
7. SOPHIA STEVENSONBirth: 20 OCT 1869 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
8. JANE STEVENSON  Birth: 15 MAY 1871 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland
9. WILLIAM STEVENSON Birth: 26 DEC 1874 Saint Ninians, Stirling, Scotland

The family are in Crossmuir, St Ninians in 1871. I think Robert Snr. died between censuses and by 1881 Margaret and children are in Quakerfield, Bannockburn.

Daughter Janet went on to marry Malcolm McGregor, a coal miner b in Port Glasgow Renfrewshire c. 1859 (not that I can find that on IGI) in 1887 and they were living in New Market St Ninians in 1891 with the first of their two children.

1887   MCGREGOR   MALCOLM   STEVENSON   JANET   BANNOCKBURN   /STIRLING   488/02 0015

Margaret Robertson/Morrison/Stevenson died in 1907:

1904   STEVENSON   MARGARET       MORRISON   67   BANNOCKBURN   /STIRLING   488/02 0080

Well, Margaret, at least that is one more Morrison mystery that is clearer 

Regards.

Monica

[aggiebagwash]

Hi Monica

I can clearly see that it looks like the right family. Now to the anomaly in my records. For some reason my records now don't make sense. I have Sophia Elder marrying William Morrison 4th July 1802 (correct) and Sophia Elder's parents as James Elder and Elizabeth Cowen (wrong)? I know it's wrong because on the IGI they don't have a daughter called Sophia but I can't think where I found the information.

To make matters even more complicated the only death I can find for a Sophia Morrison is in 1858 in St Ninians age 80, there is no mention of marital status. Her parents were William Elder a farmer and ? Wardie. It doesn't give a reason for death and the informant looks like James McCallum grandson so it looks like I am at a dead end again. I have looked for Sophia's birth and her parents marriage but there is nothing.

As I don't know where she was born it looks like another dead end. Oh! No! not the dreaded Irish line. Please NO!!!!


Regards

Margaret

[MonicaL]

Hi Margaret

Like you I cannot see a likely birth for Sophia in St Ninians (she shows a born in the county in 1841 and St Ninians in 1851 c. 1780). I can't find her in 1861, so that death entry in 1858 looks likely.

The are only two couples I can find on the OPRs having children in the right time frame with father William Elder. One is married to a Margaret Mitchel and the other to a Janet Miller (this couple had their children in St Ninians).

Any clues from the names of William and Sophia's children (and order)? Do you have the names for William Morrison's parents?

Regards.

Monica

[aggiebagwash]

Hi Monica

From the IGI their children were:
William born 1802
Margaret 1804
James 1805
Mary 1808
Thomas 1817
John 1821
Jean 1821

All born New Market, St Ninian's

I am not sure about the last 3 as there seems to be too big an age gap between Mary's birth and Thomas's.

Have found the link between Sophia and grandson James born 1832 in Bannockburn. Mary Morrison married Malcolm McCallum. So it is the right death record.

I think William's father was called James who married Mary Smith 1774 at Kennar, Stirling.

Regards

Margaret

[MonicaL]

I know naming pattern is not binding, but looking at the list of children for William and Sophia, you would think her parents were called William and Margaret, with James and Mary for William.  Hard to be definitive though isn't it     

Wardie seems to be a relatively uncommon name. Only 14 entries in Stirling under that name for example.

Regards.

Monica

[aggiebagwash]

Hi Monica

I have looked for the Wardie name and like you I can find a few in Stirlingshire but any information is scant on any web-site I look on.  I will plod on with the search and I am determined to find them.

Thinking about William Elder on Sophia's death certificate it states he was a farmer so does that mean that he would have lived around St Ninian's/Stirling? Are there any tithe maps I could access? Maybe I am looking in the wrong place. I am not too hot on Scottish history so I haven't managed to get a picture of what the town was like around 1770-1800. Was it commercial/industrial/military/agricultural based? I will google for information.

Regards

Margaret

[MonicaL]

Margaret

Bear in mind, that for occupation 'farmer', it could also cover agr. lab, ploughman, crofter etc...

Regards.

Monica

[aggiebagwash]

Hi Monica

I have spent the last 3 days trying to put in some semblance of order to all the information you have given me and it's looking good.

However the only generation that is still bugging me is the parents of Sophia Elder. The only information I can go on is from her death certificate and the information given by her grandson. William Elder to ? Wardie. There is no sign of a marriage anywhere but then I had a break and thought if I could find a sibling who died post 1855 I may be able to confirm the Christian name. I just can't find one anywhere so that was another dead end.

However I then went back to William Elder's parents and they were Andrew Elder and Margaret WORDIE. So is it Wardie or Wordie? I had another look and found Margaret Wordie born 1726 and John Wordie 1728 children of Andrew Wordie and I think Marion Wands. I have found a marriage for a John Wordie to a Margaret Morrison 1752 but I am still trying to find their children as I think that William Elder married his first cousin and it could be John and Margaret's daughter that he married.

What do you think? Am I wasting my time going down that road?

Regards

Margaret

[MonicaL]

Margaret

At this stage, it's worth following up all the avenues    The main problem that you have, and indeed, are already facing will be one of verification as the records get thinner on the ground.  Sophia Elder lived to the ripe 'young' age of 80 and just pipped it past the start of official reg in 1855. You may not be able to find any siblings for her who died after 1855 as you are finding.

The other thing that concerns me is that with the grandson reporting her death, highly likely that he didn't know/remember the name of his great grannie. The 'Wardie' may simply have been a name that 'rung a bell'.

As well as having a quick peek at possible generations back for inspiration, I would also work with what you have.  Sophia and William's marriage in 1802 (OPR), names in order of their children, all born New Market, St Ninian's:

William born 1802
Margaret 1804
James 1805
Mary 1808
Thomas 1817
John 1821
Jean 1821

You believe that William Morrison's parents were a James and Mary, I would then work through with possibles William and Margaret for Sophia's parents.  We know there was a William Elder and Margaret Mitchel having children in the around the right time (although none showing in St Ninians). From the OPRs:

19/11/1769   ELDER   ELISABETH   WILLIAM ELDER/MARGARET MITCHEL FR191   F   Gargunnock   /STIRLING   481/ 0010 0334

There was another couple, William Elder and Janet Miller who were having children in St Ninians between 1785-93 but the name Janet doesn't seem to feature in the names for Sophia's children.

It does get harder doesn't it 

Monica