Help dating photo, please

[Zebbie]

Can anyone date this photo which was taken from a negative glass image.

[old rowley]

Hi Zebbie,

I could be well out here but I would suggest between the period of 1840 to 1860. Perhaps someone could narrow it down for you abit more.

old rowley

[PrueM]

Hi Zebbie,
Can you describe the glass please?  Is it negative until you put a black card behind it? 
If it's what I think it is - a wet collodion positive on glass (sometimes called an Ambrotype although that is a term specific to one patented kind of wet collodion positive) - then it would date from the 1850s to the very early 1860s.  The women's clothes bear this out.  It's a lovely picture, is it your family? 
Cheers
Prue

P.S.  Just to add that if it's collodion, the emulsion side (the non-shiny side) will be extremely vulnerable to damage from abrasion etc. so you might want to talk to a conservator, perhaps at your local records office, about how best to store it.  That's if you haven't already done so!   

[dennford]

Can we also know the size of the plate in inches please? And are there any notches in one corner?
                                          Denn

[Zebbie]

Hi Denn,

The glass plate is 3 1/4" x 2 3/4".  The top left and bottom right corners have small irregular clear glass pieces with remnants of paper/cardboard on them, as though originally stuck to something which destroyed that part of the image.  Nothing else.

Zebbie

[PrueM]

Hi all,
I've had a closer look at the clothing etc. and I would now date this to the latter half of the 1850s, maybe even narrowing that down to the 3rd quarter of the 1850s.  This is based on the shape of the sleeves, and the hair-dos.
Zebbie - the irregular clear corners on the plate would be where the photographer held onto the plate as he applied the coating (emulsion) in preparation for taking the picture.  He had to prepare the plate immediately before taking the picture because the collodion emulsion had to remain wet the whole time.  It's probably that the paper that's stuck there is either related to the paper tape seal that would once have been all around the edges of the plate.
Did you check to see what the plate looks like, as I suggested above?  It would help with dating.
Cheers
Prue

[Zebbie]

Hi Prue,

Sorry I missed your posting. 

Yes, the photo is of my family.  I had thought it was of my Gt. Gt. Grandmother Ann BEALE who was born in 1829, together with her only child Emily who was born in 1848.

The photo does not change when a black (or white) card is put behind it and I note your remarks on conservation (good point) and have not looked into this.

Zebbie

[dennford]

Prue
    I'm not sure but is this a dry plate?, also I'm not sure but I imagine the 1/4plate size was a later development, which would have made it a little later!
     Your expert opinion is needed.
                                            Denn

[PrueM]

Hi Denn and Zebbie,

OK, if the picture doesn't change when a black card is put behind it then I think it must be a dry plate as Denn suggested...that is unless the plate is painted black on the back (instead of having a card) but then you would have said you have a positive not a negative. 

However, that presents a problem...gelatin dry plates were only introduced in the 1870s, and these ladies are certainly much earlier than that. 

Zebbie - I hate to be a pain, but do you reckon you could take a photo of the whole plate?  A pic of it full on, and one taken at an angle to catch the light, would be just great and would really help me to work out what it is.  They don't have to be big photos, just small enough to be posted on here.

Prue