ww1 soldier cottrill no records

[gig]

hi all im researching two of my greatgrand mothers brothers who were killed in the first world war ive found alot on one,serjeant cecil frederick cottrill who served in the 2/8 worcestershire regiment and was killed on the 3rd december 1917 at cambrai aged 27
he was born in mill lane studley ,at the time of death he was living with his parents at boeley rd redditch  the other brother john basil cottrill was 2 years younger , family have told me they were killed within weeks of each other . the only thing i can find on him is a memorial at mount carmel church with both brothers on it with the year 1917 i carnt find a death certificate,medal card, hes not on the cwgc or the soldiers died in ww1 any ideas or suggestions would be very welcome thanks gig

[Valda]

There is a John Cottrill, Lance Sergeant, on the CWGC website who served in the Worcestershire Regiment and was killed in 1917 in his case in August which isn't really within weeks on the other brother, but is he a possibility considering he has no known grave and so would have been reported missing and not presumed dead until a little later? There are no further details on him on the CWGC website. It was not unusual for only soldiers' first names to be recorded on their final death certificates.
Regards

Valda

[gig]

thanks valda yes ive seen him unfortunatly theres no age to match up i took the weeks within each other as not to specific as the family didnt even  know there names just vague memories and on cecils cwgc his parents name and address were listed which i belive but may be wrong that they had to take it upon themselves to have there details added to cwgc so you would have thought they would have done it for the other brother  ?
thanks for you time velda

[Valda]

I'm not sure the parents took it upon themselves to place that information with the CWGC. It may just have come from the brother's surviving records. You could purchase John's death certificate (for £7 all you will get will be the missing age) or try for his attestation papers at The National Archives. Bearing in mind these records took a direct hit in the Second World War and in the subsequent fire two thirds were lost you have only a one in three chance that either brothers' records actually have survived.
The other more practical suggestion is to check the newspaper the 'Redditch Indicator' for the period after the death or a year later on the chance the family inserted an 'in memorial' in the death section. Another thing to try might be if the parents have a gravestone, probably if they do in the Plymouth Road Redditch cemetery (the office at Abbey Cemetery Redditch should know the plot number if you can give them an approximate year of death ad they can supply you with a cemetery map). It was quite common to find sons who had been killed in the First World War, particularly those with no known grave to have their names inscribed on their parents' gravestone. My great grandparents buried at Astwood Bank just down the road from Redditch have their son named on their gravestone.

Regards

Valda

[gig]

thanks velda the  newspaper is a good idea ill try that one
ive got cecils death cert and wasnt immpressed as a few details were wrong but yes it would give me an age thanks i went to the cemetary two weeks ago and walked the whole cemetary
im afraid all i got was very cold, with the paper theres always a  chance of a photo thanks again velda

[Valda]

I'm impressed if you hacked your way through the undergrowth at the top of the hill - I found at least one gravestone there with an unpleasant tussel with a holly bush - not recommended. As I said visiting the Abbey cemetery office would give you details of a possible gravestone site and whether a stone was ever present and also an all important map - essential for any potential cemetery visit. It would also confirm if they were actually buried there and not somewhere else. If they were prominent enough the Redditch Indicator might have covered the father's death as well and if so there might have been some mention of his two sons. Prominent would be something like a local builder etc. or someone of reasonable longevity. My great grandfather got an obituary and for most of his life he worked as a needlemaker in Astwood Bank, but had left the village for Birmingham over 30 years before his death.

Regards

Valda

[harribobs]

there is a john as well on sdgw    also killed in 17

[gig]

thanks, although puzzled with the cemetry im not local to the aera
 so i dont know if i was at the right one now it had a bungalow type building in the middle but carnt remember alot of undergrowth
so i might have been in the wrong one there father,francis james was a tin plate worker and there mother mary teresa played the piano at the pictures before talkies and taught music , they died in the fifties both in there ninties so i dont know if that would be prominent enough  thanks for your time valda

thank you for the soldiers died harribobs

[Valda]

That would seem to rule out the John Cottrill who died in 1917 as on the 1901 census he was born circa 1892 in Studley Warwickshire but presumably was of Redditch by the time of the war?

The only other J Cott (various spellings) I can see for a death in 1917 is
COTTRELL, J  Private 26197 11/04/1917  Unknown North Staffordshire Regiment United Kingdom I. K. 9. CHOCQUES MILITARY CEMETERY

Perhaps harribobs can see further details on this man or anyone else who might fit the bill.

Plymouth Road Cemetery starts at the bottom of a hill.

Regards

Valda