Rose and Maria BREEZE in Upwell

[Berlin-Bob]

I would like to find out more about my greatgrandmother, Rose Breeze.

So far I have the following information:

1859: Birth Certificate
Born in Outwell, Isle of Ely, County of Norfolk
Mother is Biddy Maria Breeze,
Father is left blank, which indicates possible illegitimacy.

1860: IGI
Baptised Wisbeach-St.Peter, Wisbech, Cambridgeshire,
Mother Maria Breeze

1881: Census:
No likely looking Maria Breeze, Rose Breeze or John Breeze
(Unless Rose Albina Breeze, servant, born 1856 Upwell, Cambs. is a mis-spelt, mis-dated Rose Elvina

1887: Marriage Cert.
Married to Henry Frederick Coleman
Father is John Breeze (deceased), Farmer

1901: Census
Rose Coleman, born Cambs. Upwell

My problem is, that I don't know if there was in fact a John Breeze, or if she "invented" him, to look respectable !
(I have the same problem, with my great grandfather, who may also have invented a deceased father for the marriage cert.)

Another problem is, that the county boundaries have changed, so Outwell, Upwell were sometimes in Cambridgeshire and sometimes in Norfolk, so I am posting this on the Norfolk Board as well.

So, could SKS please look up Rose and Biddy Maria Breeze (or possibly BREESE) in the 1861 and/or 1871 Cambridgeshire Census.

Any information would help to shed more light on the situation.
Thanks in advance
Bob

[Frances]

Hi Bob,
Have you had a look at the Cambridge Family History site?
Regards, Frances

http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html

[bedfordshire boy]

1861 Upwell
Maria Breese Head widow 41 farm lab born Upwell
Anna M Breese dau unm 18 bUpwell
William Breese son 16 b Upwell
Rose Alvina Breese 2 b Upwell
John Breese 14 b Upwell
Elizabeth Smith mother widow 97 visitor b Bealer Nfk

I could not see the family on the 1851 census for Upwell.

re 1881 - every chance that Rose Albina is yours!

It looks to me as though Maria may have been Smith prior to her marriage (unless her mother had remarried) and she produced a number of children - but there is a big gap between John 14 and Rose 2! When did her husband John die? there are a number of John Breese's dying in Wisbech registration district on FReeBMD including one in the June quarter 1847 (about the time that his son John was born???

There are a few other Breese's in Upwell in 1861 - if you want details just let me know.

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi Bedfordshire Boy,

That is great, thank you !
Was that the Cambridgeshire census you looked up ? About 3 months ago, I made a similar request on GenesConnected/GenesReunited and someone there found this family on the Norfolk 1851 census:

Head: BREESE, Maria Neighbors 132865
Name Relationship Mar Age Sex Occupation Birthplace
Maria BREESE Head W 34 F --- Upwell-Cambridge
Elizabeth BREESE Daur U 10 F --- Upwell-Cambridge
Anna Maria BREESE Daur U 8 F --- Upwell-Cambridge
William BREESE Son U 6 M --- Upwell-Cambridge
John BREESE Son U 4 M --- Upwell-Cambridge
Address: Town Street, Wisbech
Census Place: Upwell Wisbech, Norfolk
PRO Reference: HO/107/1767 Folio: 538 Page: 22 FHL Film: 0193661

Note the Upwell-Cambridge, Upwell-Wisbech-Norfolk !!

The mother's age is a few years out, but the children Anna, William and John  are spot on !
On Rose Elvina's birth cert. there is an "X the mark of .. " for the mother "Biddy Maria Breese" so maybe she wasn't sure of her age either !

Looks like she was a widow already in 1851.  So Rose was definitely illegitimate. I have no proof that the Husband was called John, just the marriage cert.,naming him as "Father" !


Do you have an address for 1861 ?

I think I will have a root around BMD etc, and collect possible dates, but the verification may have to wait till I can afford some more certificates, on spec. Second thoughts, if I can find (and afford) the birth cert. for any of the other three kids, that should give me the husbands name !

Once again, thank you !

p.s. you have now added me to the "looking for SMITH" group !  Arrrrrgh !! 

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Bob

Yes, that was from the Cambridgeshire census, which includes bits of Norfolk
It was ref RG9/1053 Folio 103B headed Upwell Norfolk, and the address, very helpful, was "town".

The 1851 Cambs census in Upwell ended at HO107/1767 folio 523, so I imagine that it continues in Norfolk, and explains why I couldn't trace them in Cambs.

The 1851 description of Maria as widow confirms my suspicions about Rose! So it's really a bit irrelevant as to who Maria's first husband was if you're simply tracing Rose's line back, but it would help to complete the picture.

Good luck with the Smiths - I knew you'd be pleased to read that!

I've seen some of your posts on GeRe - I'm getting more than a little disillusioned with them. I prefer these message boards which I find a lot more intelligent, and I've put my tree on GenCircles which I find to be easier to navigate, and much faster.

Good luck

David

[bedfordshire boy]

Bob

Have you checked out the Cambs FHS site? It has indexes for 1841 and 1851 censuses, plus baptism and burial indexes 1801-1837 for Cambs.

I've just checked my 1841 census and found them as follows:
Upwell HO107/78/22 folio 4B
John Breeze 40 ag lab
Maria Breeze 24 ag lab
John Breeze Jun 4
Elizabeth Breeze 1
All born in county

So it does look as though John Breeze actually existed.

Isn't genealogy a breeze! (sorry, couldn't resist!)

David

[paulalou]

Hi,

I've just looked at the 1871 online census for you. There is no Maria or Rose Breeze in Camridgeshire. The census for Norfolk hasn't yet been added so i wasn't able to check that.

Paula

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi everybody,
apologies for the delay, life is a bit hectic at the moment

Frances,
Thanks for that idea, when things settle down here, I will look into it.

David,
once again, many thanks.  The Colemans (my lot !) only go back one and a bit censuses: the family in 1901 but only Rose Coleman, born Breeze, and her 9 day old daughter in maternity hospital in 1891, so it is nice to trace part of my family through three censuses !!!

Yes, it is a breeze, isn't it ! It seems as if only the the english ancestors (mine and my wife's) tend to stay in one place longer than one "census period" (the Breezes 1841 - 1861, and on my wife's side the Bensons 1861 - 1901, and the Kennedys 1871-1901)
The rest of her's (irish and scottish) never manage to stay anywhere longer than one census !! And the rest of mine come from the continent !

Paula,
Many thanks for looking, maybe one day, soon, Ancestry will supply the missing bits ....