1841 look up for the Barrie family please

[sheilalewry44]

I wonder if anyone can look up the 1841 census for my g/g/grandmother Helen BARRIE please?
The 1881 census says that she was born in Larbert Stirling about 1828.
I havent found her marriage, but she had my g/grandmother in Dec 1848 in Kirriemuir Angus. Her husband was Robert Allardice. 
On the birth certificates of some of their children, her name is given as Ellen or Helen BARRET and on the others it is Helen BARRIE.
Robert Allardice died in 1887 and sometime after that, Helen must have gone back to live in Stirling, because she died there in 1916. However, her son who registered the death, gave her maiden name as BARRET and her age as 78 which would have meant that her date of birth would have been 1838, just 10 years before her first child was born.  Also the first names of her parents are missing from her death certificate!
If Helen can be found on the 1841 census, it might solve some of the problems.
Thanks in advance

[apanderson]

Hi,

Don't have the 1841 Cencus but there doesn't seems to be any Ellen/Helen Barrie/ Barrets (in the British Vital Records) born around this time in Stirlingshire

It doesn't mean she wasn't born in Stirlingshire, simply that her parents didn't record her birth.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Anne

[sheilalewry44]

Thanks for looking, Anne.  She is definitely one of my biggest stumbling blocks!
If anyone does have the 1841 census, I am still looking for any information at all on this family.
Are there any other sites apart from Scotlands People where I can find the 1901 Stirling census, to find out who Helen Allardice c1828 was staying with?
Any help appreciated ... Sheila

[Dano]

There is no Helen or Ellen Barrie or Barret aged about 13 in the 1841 census of Larbert. This is the only 1841 complete census I have.

If you give me the names, years of birth and places of birth of their children, I may be able to help more.

Don't give up!

Regards
Dano

[sheilalewry44]

Thanks Dano,

I suppose another scenario for 1841 is that her parents had already moved to Kirriemuir in Angus, as that is where she had her first child in Dec 1848.

I also dont have a date for her marriage, but I suppose it was around 1848 as that was when she had her first child, and she would have been around 20 years old then.

Her children were :

Betsy 12 Dec 1848 Kirriemuir parents Helen Barret/Robert Allardice
John 27 Mar 1851 Kirriemuir parents Ellen Barret/Robert Allardice
George 20 May 1854 Kirriemuir parents Ellen Barret/Robert Allardice
Duncan Milne 10 Nov 1856 Kirriemuir - Helen Barrie/Robert Allardice
Robert 8 Jul 1859 Kirriemuir - Helen Barrie/Robert Allardice
James 25 Jan 1862 kirriemuir - Helen Barrie/Robert Allardice
Charles 3 Mar 1865 Kirriemuir - Helen Barrie/Robert Allardice
Isabella 25 Sep 1866 Kirriemuir - Helen Barrie/Robert Allardice
Jessie Mill 17 Feb 1869 Kirriemuir - Helen Barrie/Robert Allardice
Helen 6 Nov 1873 Kirriemuir - Helen Barrie/Robert Allardice

Helens husband, Robert Allardice died 17/10/1887 in Kirriemuir

Helen died at 16 Lower Bridge Street in Stirling 21/4/1916
I havent been able to see the 1901 Stirling census yet to see who Helen was staying with (or maybe she was on her own) as that might have given some clue of her family.

Sometimes an extra pair of eyes finds something that should be obvious!

1871 and 1881 census both say that she was born in Larbert.

Hope you manage to make a better detective than me!

regards .. Sheila

[Dano]

Hi Sheila,

Who notified the death on her death certificate? It states if that person was present or not and sometimes gives their address.

That may give you some clues.

Dano

[runner]

Hi Sheila

another thing to remember is that on a death certificate the name given and age may be way out. Even when the person registering the death is immediate family they may not have known the exact age, names of parents, even the maiden name of their mother.
When it's a son-in-law who registers the entry may have very few correct facts at all as I have discovered several times.

Russell

[Dano]

One other thing to remeber is that Helen may have been born earlier.  I notice one son is called Duncan Milne &  there is also a son named Charles- these could be a clue to her parents. 

There were 2 children born in Angus to Charles Barrie & Janet Milne

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On the 51 census she gives her age as 23 Stating she was born Falkirk
On the 1901 census she is living alone.  Stating she was born Larbert giving her age as 75.


dano

[pawcards]

In the 1901 census it appears that Ellen was living on her own at the same address as when she died. 
Source Information:
Ancestry.com. 1901 Scotland Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2007. Original data: Scotland. 1901 Scotland Census.. Reels 1-446. General Register Office for Scotland, Edinburgh, Scotland.

I wonder if you have found out any more about the Allardices in Kirriemuir, my family came from that area but I am only just starting to piece it all together.  there seems to be some variation on the Allardice/Allerdice/Alle/ardyce spelling, I suppose according to the census enumerator!